CE 833

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Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2022, 08:13:29 PM »

I believe that, in “Mrs. Paine’s Garage” it is written that Ruth found the handwritten draft laying on her desk. It is also written that she had previously seen LHO typing the letter on her typewriter. So your idea of her finding it in the garbage can and typing it herself is all wrong.

Also, The FBI and Hosty were already aware of LHO’s trip to Mexico and the letter that LHO typed and sent to the Soviet Embassy. They had intercepted the letter and copied it before letting it be delivered to the Soviet Embassy. Here is what Hosty wrote in his book “Assignment Oswald” it is 2:30 on 11/22/63, only two hours after the assassination and shortly after LHO was arrested.

TIME: 2:15 P.M. A hand clutched my elbow. I spun; Howe was in my face. “They’ve just arrested a guy named Lee Oswald, and they’re booking him for the killing of the policeman over in Oak Cliff. Officer’s name was Tippit.” It took me only a second or two to shift from the extreme right wing to Lee Oswald. Lee Oswald was a Communist who had defected to the Soviet Union and returned three years later with a Russian wife, Marina. I had an active file on both Oswalds, who were both considered espionage risks. I had learned on November 1 that Oswald worked at one of the Texas school book depository buildings in Dallas. I remembered thinking Tippit’s and Kennedy’s killings were related, and then it hit me like a load of bricks. “That’s him! Ken, that must be him. Oswald has to be the one who shot Kennedy!” Oswald was the son of a As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day?  It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair.  His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate.  Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare.  There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.' who shot the president. We had a bead on the assassin. “Listen,” Howe said. “Do you have the Oswald file?” “No, I don’t. It should be in the active file cabinet.” Howe and I rushed over to the cabinet. The file was gone, which meant that the mail clerk probably had it for incoming mail purposes. We hurried to his office and started frantically looking for it. Loeffler, the only other supervisor in the office, joined us in the search, found the file, and handed it to me and Howe. Paper-clipped to the top we found a one-page communique from the Washington, D.C., field office. While Howe pulled out his reading glasses, I began reading the communique, which summarized a letter written by Oswald to the Soviet Embassy in Washington. The letter had been intercepted by the FBI, then read and copied by an intelligence agent before it was sent along to the Russians. According to the communique, Oswald had written that he had been in Mexico City and had spoken with “Comrade Kostine.” I had read something about this Mexico City meeting in October, but had been forbidden by FBI policy from questioning Oswald about it, as it would tip off Oswald, and presumably the Soviets, to our intelligence sources and methods in Mexico.

Ruth gave the handwritten draft to Hosty on 11/23/63. This was the day after the assassination during an interview that was instigated by the FBI. If you want to think that this makes Ruth Paine an FBI informant (she wasn’t), then you have to admit that she was not a very effective one.

OMG!..... You're now citing "Mrs Paine's Garage!!    Unfreaking believable!

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2022, 08:13:29 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2022, 10:53:20 PM »
This is an interesting passage in the appendix of “Mrs. Paine’s Garage”. It says a lot about who Ruth Paine is.

Shortly after returning home from her appearance before Jim Garrison’s grand jury, Ruth wrote the New Orleans DA this letter (reproduced here exactly as originally written):

 1201 Woodleigh
 Irving, Texas 75060
 April 20, 1968

Mr. Jim Garrison
District Attorney of Orleans Parish
Criminal Courts Building
2700 Tulane Avenue
New Orleans, Louisiana

Dear Jim Garrison:

 I was much moved by the two days just spent in New Orleans. I had had no personal knowledge of you and only the most fragmentary and inaccurate information on the nature of your investigation of conspiracy. I was glad to discover that there are some fundamental ways in which I agree with the importance of your pursuit of information regarding a possible conspiracy. Most basic is the conviction that if our form of society is to survive we must create checks and balances on the burgeoning clandestine wing of our government called the CIA. (Or close it down.) Your charges are so sweeping and major that it would be national folly not to pursue the issue to see where truth lies. There can be no harm in such pursuit, it seems to me, unless innocent people suffer markedly as a result of it. The harm in our not pursuing truth regarding the questions you raise could be great indeed.

I was impressed, as many must be, by the sheer force of your personality. It would seem in the nature of things that people who agree with you would gather to you, and those who disagree would simply turn away. It has occurred to me that if I can be helpful to your search it is as a person who might raise doubts about your conclusions and data from a position basically sympathetic to your objectives. You don’t have many “middle-ground” people around you and are not likely to have. It is possible that this sort of “check and balance” on the probe itself would not be of interest to you, but my guess is that it would be.

If there are ways I can help I shall be glad. I was struck by your passionate concern for Man, and by the intense grief you feel over the loss of President Kennedy. I, too, feel that loss acutely. He was a most remarkable person, and extremely valuable to our country. Besides his charm and brilliance as a man he also was a president inoculated by the experience of the Bay of Pigs. He had taken the measure of the “expert advice” of generals (and the CIA) and had found it wanting. He was a man prepared to do his own thinking in a framework of the highest regard for man, for life and for civilization. For myself, I have given up wondering when the sharp sting of my grief over his loss will wane. I have concluded it never shall, and in that I found you kindred.

 With highest regards, /s/

Ruth Mrs. Michael R. Paine

The respectful tone and cooperative manner here may seem to contradict the alarm that Ruth recalls experiencing in New Orleans (see pp. 130–133). But amidst the letter’s apparent deference (wise behavior for anyone around this particular prosecutor), Ruth indicates her awareness of the “sweeping” nature of Garrison’s charges and expresses a concern that “innocent people” may suffer. (Most citizens addressing a district attorney might take it for granted that he was trying not to trample over the innocent. Ruth seems to realize that this one needs to be reminded of that.) She tells Garrison, however delicately, that he is surrounded by yes-men—clearly the impression she got from visiting his office. She is offering to serve as a reality check to this man whose “sheer force of…personality” had, for sure, made an impression. Ruth’s negative view of the CIA is neither surprising nor terribly significant. In thinking about the agency, she had gone down the same road millions of liberals had found themselves traveling between ’63 and ’68; the dismay had nothing to do with her enmeshment in the assassination or any real expectation that the CIA would prove to have been involved in that crime. Ruth’s expression of agreement about the need for unflinching investigation of the president’s murder is consistent with the opinion she had held since the day it occurred. It’s important, above all, to remember that Ruth Paine was ultimately a thorn in Garrison’s side: less than a year after writing this letter she testified as a defense witness for Clay Shaw. Indeed, this letter resides amongst the papers of Edward Wegmann, Shaw’s attorney, in the National Archives. I am grateful to Patricia Lambert for bringing it to my attention.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 11:08:23 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2022, 10:53:20 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2022, 08:58:43 PM »
Of all the people who have been falsely accused and persecuted by CTers as being part of a conspiracy to kill the president, I feel most badly for Ruth Paine who became the poster person for "no good deed goes unpunished."  It's also perplexing how quickly Marina Oswald turned on her after accepting her charity and favors for many months.  A very shameful act.  A lot of people owe Ruth Paine a big apology. 

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2022, 08:58:43 PM »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2022, 10:29:05 PM »
   A lot of people owe Ruth Paine a big apology. 
Send her some flowers.
I fail to see the relevance.... or in fact, any point at all in that post.
Commission Exhibit No . 833
April 6, 1964
1 . ?  Q... Was there any FBI interest in Oswald before
the Aril, 1960 FBI interviews of bIrs . Marguerite Oswald and Robert
Oswald? If so, what was the nature and extent of the interest? What
initiated the April, 1960 questioning of Airs . Oswald and Robert
A... Yes . The FBI's first interest in Lee Harvey
Oswald arose as a result of a "Washington Capital News Service"
release datelined October 31, 1959, at Moscow which announced that
Oswald a 20-year-old former United States .Marine, advised the United
Press International during his press conference in his room at the
t , 1etropole Hotel, Moscow, that }he had applied to renounce his American
citizenship and to become a Soviet citizen for "purely political
reasons ." He further announced that he would never return to the
United States .
We checked our records on October 31, 1959, and determined
that our files contained no information identifiable with Oswald
other than a service fingerprint card showing his enlistment in the
United States Marine Corps (US : :C) on October 24, 1956, at Dallas,
Texas . On November 2, 1959, we determined through liaison with
the United States Navy Departrment that the files of the Office of
Naval Intelligence (ONI) contained no record of Oswald .
The 17 page CE 833 Document-----I wonder who typed it up?----

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Re: CE 833
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2022, 10:29:05 PM »


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