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Author Topic: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie  (Read 16551 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #224 on: October 23, 2022, 08:22:55 PM »
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2. From the testimony of Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer:

Mr. BELIN. Now you took an elevator up, is that correct?
Mr. SAWYER. That's right.
Mr. BELIN. The route that you took to the elevator, you went to the front door?
Mr. SAWYER. Right.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?
Mr. SAWYER. We got into the elevator. We run into this man.
Mr. BELIN. Well, when you say you got into the elevator, where was the elevator as you walked in the front door?


Who was the man Mr Sawyer ran into? Mr Belin doesn't want to know! But we know he was apparently a Depository man:

Mr. SAWYER. And I went with a couple of officers and a man who I believed worked in the building. The elevator was just to the right of the main entrance, and we went to the top floor, which was pointed out to me by this other man as being the floor that we were talking about. We had talked about the fifth floor. And we went back to the storage area and looked around and didn't see anything.

Suggestion: This man was none other than Mr Roy Truly. He did NOT accompany Officer Baker up the building, but stayed downstairs. (Or, if an inference is to be made from Mr Eddie Piper's testimony, he went up only one story with him and then came back down to first floor.) Then, some 4-5 mins post-shooting, he accompanied Inspector Sawyer up to the FOURTH floor in the passenger elevator

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Now! It has been argued that the Depository man who accompanied Insp. Sawyer and the other officers was Mr Bill Shelley. The highlighted text below from Mr Shelley's testimony explains why this is a non-starter:

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in; I don't know whether they were Secret Service or FBI or what but they wanted me to take them upstairs, so we went up and started searching the various floors.
Mr. BALL - Did you go up on the sixth floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.


Inspector Sawyer was in uniform; Inspector Sawyer only searched one floor (the fourth) and then came back down again

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 08:32:36 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #225 on: October 23, 2022, 08:26:48 PM »

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3. From the Stroud Letter:

ďMiss Garner, Miss Adamsí supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams went downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come up.Ē

Suggestion: Miss Garner saw Mr Truly AND THE UNIFORMED INSP. SAWYER arrive on the fourth floor some 5 mins post-shooting

If the above is correct, then it gives us another reason (beyond the unwelcome confirmation of Ms Adams' timeline) why Ms Garner was not asked to give an on the record statement about this by the WC: such would have destroyed the fairytale claim of Mr Truly to have accompanied Officer Baker up to the roof------and with it the fairytale lunchroom encounter story.

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2022, 08:52:42 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #226 on: October 24, 2022, 04:05:15 AM »
If Iím not mistaken, Sawyer used  the EAST elevator to arrive to the 4th floor. Therefore He would not be likely the officer whom Garner saw accompanying Truly coming up using the staircase.

Iíve not read Barry Ernest book so IDK if he asked Mrs Garner  about seeing the officer and Truly using the staircase or the elevator.

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #226 on: October 24, 2022, 04:05:15 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #227 on: October 24, 2022, 09:45:51 PM »
If Iím not mistaken, Sawyer used  the EAST elevator to arrive to the 4th floor. Therefore He would not be likely the officer whom Garner saw accompanying Truly coming up using the staircase.

Iíve not read Barry Ernest book so IDK if he asked Mrs Garner  about seeing the officer and Truly using the staircase or the elevator.

Insp. Sawyer used the front (passenger) elevator. Ms Garner never stated that it was via the stairs that she saw Mr Truly and the policeman coming up. (And she certainly failed to confirm it to Mr Ernest.)

I am suggesting that, if she didn't see Mr Truly and the policeman actually step off the passenger elevator on four, then she saw them when they came back to the storage area.

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Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #228 on: October 24, 2022, 10:34:25 PM »
Mr Givens, by the way, also puts Mr Oswald in a gray jacket............

Cf this curious exchange in Mr James Jarman's WC testimony, where he is being asked for his recollection of how Mr Oswald was dressed that morning:

Mr. Ball. What kind of a shirt?
Mr. Jarman. Ivy leagues, I believe.
Mr. Ball. What kind of a shirt, do you know?
Mr. Jarman. He never hardly worked in a shirt. He worked in a T-shirt.


Why does Mr Ball ask him the same question twice, after being given an answer the first time? And how does Mr Jarman's second response make sense given his first response?

Is 'shirt' in l.1 above a typo for 'jacket'? -----------------> Ivy Leagues-type jacket?

Or is 'Ivy leagues' a mistranscription of 'I believe'??
« Last Edit: October 24, 2022, 10:35:11 PM by Alan Ford »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #228 on: October 24, 2022, 10:34:25 PM »