Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie


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Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #144 on: July 27, 2022, 10:48:54 AM »
And so we see, in the Stroud letter--------------



--------------the tragicomical unravelling of the WC's dirty tactic of using Messrs Lovelady and Shelley to discredit Ms Adams' timeline. In her first paragraph, Ms Stroud details the changes made by Ms Adams; in her second paragraph, she (unwittingly, I have no doubt) shows what a dangerous miscalculation it is now proving for the WC to have gone all in on the Lovelady-Shelley first-floor sighting. Ms Garner's sighting of Mr Truly and the policeman coming up AFTER Ms Adams ran downstairs screws up the whole Shelley-Lovelady timeline, because it has Ms Adams & Ms Styles hitting the first floor within seconds of the second-floor lunchroom encounter! How in the heck do you get from Messrs Shelley & Lovelady's WC account to that? It's a total non-starter!

Accordingly! The Stroud letter is not included in the WC record. And neither Ms Garner nor Ms Styles are asked to help clarify the matter on-the-record.

But--------------I hear you ask--------------why didn't the WC go with the solution whereby Ms Adams' timeline is VINDICATED (give or take a few seconds) but her non-sighting of Mr Oswald NEUTRALISED? i.e.......

Mr Truly & Officer Baker didn't notice-----------and were not noticed by-----------Ms Adams & Ms Styles because the two men were over by the lunchroom with Mr Oswald when Ms Adams and Ms Styles crossed the second-floor landing.

Answer:
a) Because they were already in Lovelady/Shelley stepped in so far that returning were more impossible than go o'er
b) Because they knew that, even without the Lovelady/Shelley nonsense in the mix, that explanation's earplugs-on-everyone-involved premise would be too ridiculous for words!


No wonder Mr Nessan & Co. resent the Stroud letter so much!

 Thumb1:
But--------------I hear you ask--------------why didn't the WC go with the solution whereby Ms Adams' timeline is VINDICATED (give or take a few seconds) but her non-sighting of Mr Oswald NEUTRALISED?

I have wondered this myself.
If Adams' testimony is taken at face value it is easily argued that both she and Styles arrive at the stairs before Oswald reaches the same stairs two stories up. The stairs are an enclosed space with the women clattering down them in high heels. It is reasonable to assume the noise created in this enclosed space would make it incredibly difficult to be aware of anyone on the stairs a few flights up. There is absolutely no reason why they should be expected to see or hear Oswald on the staircase (particularly as he wasn't even coming down the staircase).
There is no reason to discredit Adams' timeline as there is no reason to suspect that if she and Styles were running down the staircase within seconds of the assassination they would bump into Oswald, or hear him coming down the stairs from above.
So why go to the bother of altering this testimony?

According to Barry Ernest, Adams is adamant her WC testimony was changed and that the part about seeing Lovelady and Shelley at the bottom of the staircase was an addition.
This assertion receives incredibly strong support from Lovelady's admission that he did not re-enter the TSBD building for 20-25 minutes after the assassination.
The conclusion, that the WC altered witness testimony, is almost impossible to escape.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 10:49:37 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #144 on: July 27, 2022, 10:48:54 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #145 on: July 27, 2022, 11:44:11 AM »
Of interest is the following statement taken by Jim Leavelle on Feb 17, 1964:




As with her WC testimony, it contains two key, and contradictory, elements:

1) That she started running downstairs immediately after the assassination.
2) She reached the first floor and saw Lovelady and Shelley

In every statement she makes, Adams is running - to the back stairs, down the stairs, out the rear door. Why is she running? In the above statement she makes it clear - she knew someone was being shot at and she wanted to find out what was going on. To imagine she stood around for a few minutes then suddenly sprinted down the stairs is silly. It was an immediate reaction to the shooting.
When we accept her consistent testimony about leaving the fourth floor within seconds of the assassination, and the understandable reason for her doing so, we must also accept that Shelley and Lovelady were not at the bottom of the stairs when Adams and Styles arrived there, seconds after the assassination.

Then why is the sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor being made by Adams on Feb 17th?
Is it some weird mistake she is making?
Is it the beginning of conspiracy? Has this interview been tampered with?
According to Ernest, Adams never made the statement about seeing Lovelady and Shelley on the first floor.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2022, 12:11:05 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2022, 02:28:12 PM »
But Mr Nessan gives 100% credence to that document and has declared it beyond the bounds of possibility that the word "there" could have been handwritten in by anyone other than Ms Adams.

His strange refusal to specify which document he was 'accusing' of being "completely fabricated" suggests that he's now embarrassed at the fact that he was referring to----------------actually referring to!--------------my illustrative addition of blue text:



It could have been worse---------he could have accused the green on this document of being fake!



 :D :D :D

The Stroud document is a joke. Adams WC statement provides timestamps that render it a farce. Adams encountered Shelley and Lovelady near the elevator on her way through the first floor. Stroud was at her desk when the shooting took place. She then goes to the window and does not know when they left.

Barry Ernest's statement about Adams does not include an encounter with the negroes. That must be some fake make-believe nonsense fron the Deep Politics Forum. Obviously Ernest never knew the encounters of Adams with the different police officers that would put time stamps on her and Styles movements.

Barry Ernest: 2011 

"The letter has since become known as "the Stroud document.
     Its contents concerned the testimony of Victoria Adams and how,
on examination, Miss Adams had noticed several spelling and
grammatical errors that she felt needed correction.  None of those
corrections were made in the final version, however."

Your rendition of her statement included "Top Secret" at the top. What would have been top secret about her statement?

Maybe this is not the right forum for fantasy evidence.



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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #146 on: July 27, 2022, 02:28:12 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #147 on: July 27, 2022, 02:48:36 PM »
Then why is the sighting of Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor being made by Adams on Feb 17th?
Is it some weird mistake she is making?
Is it the beginning of conspiracy? Has this interview been tampered with?

Feb 17 marked the moment when the Lovelady/Shelley scam was put into operation.

From Mr Barry Ernest's The Girl on the Stairs:

"She told me about the night she was startled to find Dallas police officer James Leavelle standing at her front doorstep. The date was February 17, 1964.
“One time, a detective from the Dallas police came to my apartment, showed his badge and asked to talk with me. I asked him why he needed to talk with me since I had already given my testimony to the Dallas police. ‘Oh,’ he responded, ‘the records were all burned in a fire we had and we have to interview everyone again.’"



Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #148 on: July 27, 2022, 02:52:56 PM »
The Stroud document is a joke. Adams WC statement provides timestamps that render it a farce. Adams encountered Shelley and Lovelady near the elevator on her way through the first floor.

'The fact that Garner saw something that rules out Adams' encounter with Shelley and Lovelady proves that Adams had the encounter with Shelley and Lovelady'

 :D

Quote
Stroud was at her desk when the shooting took place.

"Stroud" lol

Quote
She then goes to the window and does not know when they left.

Barry Ernest's statement about Adams does not include an encounter with the negroes. That must be some fake make-believe nonsense fron the Deep Politics Forum. Obviously Ernest never knew the encounters of Adams with the different police officers that would put time stamps on her and Styles movements.

Barry Ernest: 2011 

"The letter has since become known as "the Stroud document.
     Its contents concerned the testimony of Victoria Adams and how,
on examination, Miss Adams had noticed several spelling and
grammatical errors that she felt needed correction.  None of those
corrections were made in the final version, however."

Your rendition of her statement included "Top Secret" at the top. What would have been top secret about her statement?

~Grin~

My "rendition"? Nope--just my reproduction!  Thumb1:

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2022, 01:22:49 AM »
The Stroud document is a joke. Adams WC statement provides timestamps that render it a farce. Adams encountered Shelley and Lovelady near the elevator on her way through the first floor. Stroud was at her desk when the shooting took place. She then goes to the window and does not know when they left.

Barry Ernest's statement about Adams does not include an encounter with the negroes. That must be some fake make-believe nonsense fron the Deep Politics Forum. Obviously Ernest never knew the encounters of Adams with the different police officers that would put time stamps on her and Styles movements.

Barry Ernest: 2011 

"The letter has since become known as "the Stroud document.
     Its contents concerned the testimony of Victoria Adams and how,
on examination, Miss Adams had noticed several spelling and
grammatical errors that she felt needed correction.  None of those
corrections were made in the final version, however."

Your rendition of her statement included "Top Secret" at the top. What would have been top secret about her statement?

Maybe this is not the right forum for fantasy evidence.

Adams WC statement provides timestamps that render it a farce.

In his HSCA interview, after being presented with a still from the Hughes film showing him stood outside the TSBD building approximately ten minutes after the assassination, Billy Lovelady finally concedes that he didn't re-enter the building for 20-25 minutes after the shooting.
How does this fit in with Adams' timeline?

Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?
Miss ADAMS. Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.
Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?
Miss ADAMS. I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.
Mr. BELIN. How long do you think it took you. to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS. I would say no longer than a minute at the most.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 01:24:34 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #149 on: July 28, 2022, 01:22:49 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #150 on: July 28, 2022, 02:19:45 PM »
'The fact that Garner saw something that rules out Adams' encounter with Shelley and Lovelady proves that Adams had the encounter with Shelley and Lovelady'

 :D

"Stroud" lol

~Grin~

My "rendition"? Nope--just my reproduction!  Thumb1:

'The fact that Garner saw something that rules out Adams' encounter with Shelley and Lovelady proves that Adams had the encounter with Shelley and Lovelady'

Huh?

.----------------------

No, a fictional rendition. Reproduction leaves the impression it was real when it is just fiction.


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2022, 02:28:23 PM »
Feb 17 marked the moment when the Lovelady/Shelley scam was put into operation.

From Mr Barry Ernest's The Girl on the Stairs:

"She told me about the night she was startled to find Dallas police officer James Leavelle standing at her front doorstep. The date was February 17, 1964.
“One time, a detective from the Dallas police came to my apartment, showed his badge and asked to talk with me. I asked him why he needed to talk with me since I had already given my testimony to the Dallas police. ‘Oh,’ he responded, ‘the records were all burned in a fire we had and we have to interview everyone again.’"


Don't forget to post the part that the only problem Adams had with her WC testimony was grammar.

She encountered the police in the back and the front of the TSBD. The timestamps provided by these encounters render the Stroud document basically nonsense.

Barry Ernest: 2011 

"The letter has since become known as "the Stroud document.
     Its contents concerned the testimony of Victoria Adams and how,
on examination, Miss Adams had noticed several spelling and
grammatical errors that she felt needed correction.  None of those
corrections were made in the final version, however."
 


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Re: Messrs Shelley & Lovelady: The Big Lie
« Reply #151 on: July 28, 2022, 02:28:23 PM »


 

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