Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?

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Author Topic: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?  (Read 1027 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2022, 08:34:00 PM »
I keep forgetting that the intellectual capabilities of forum members ranges widely with some on the lower end of the scale.  Here's how you do it.  Take notes if necessary.  You fire at a target.  Notice that it fires a bit high.  Next time you aim a bit lower to compensate.  Not rocket science.  JFK was not behind a tree when he was shot.  LOL.  Although he was "moving" he was doing so at a very slow rate of speed.  Charles Whitman, who received similar USMC training during a similar timeframe as Oswald, hit moving human targets at distances three times that of Oswald.

 You fire at a target.  Notice that it fires a bit high.  Next time you aim a bit lower to compensate.

Wow!...  That's all there is to it?.....   You know with just one shot that it was a misalignment of the sights that caused the bullet to strike high?    So you fire a bit lower at the target on the second shot....   

How did you know that it wasn't for some other reason ( there are many) that the first round struck high?   
I tell ya, Mr "Smith" yer a genius!.....   

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2022, 08:34:00 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2022, 09:00:31 PM »
This question contains a false premise as it implies that Oswald's scope was "wonky" at the time he used his rifle to assassinate JFK.  However, no one knows the condition of Oswald's scope at the time of the assassination.  His rifle was hidden behind some boxes after the assassination (i.e. dropped).  The authorities actually removed the scope to search for prints before testing the rifle.  So it is impossible to say whether Oswald's scope was "wonky" at the time he used it to assassinate JFK and, for similar reasons, impossible to compare to any other situation.  What we do know is that Oswald and Whitman received similar training in the USMC on how to use a rifle.  Neither were a novice with a rifle and it was an easy shot for Oswald with his training with or without a scope.

His rifle was hidden behind BENEATH some boxes after the assassination (i.e. dropped).

So you were there, and saw that it was Lee Oswald who hid the rifle....And you saw him drop it....    Is that right mr  "Smith"?

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2022, 09:00:31 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2022, 09:04:44 PM »
I believe he used the iron sights. That was his only choice as regardless of shims at all, Oswald would have known that disassembling a rifle, placing it in a paper bag, and then assembling it inside the TSBD would mean the scope could not be trusted as it had not been zeroed in in its assembled state which is the only way to zero in a rifle.
You guys would believe it if there were no sights at all on a bald barrel :D
? Question---Why proceed and mount this presumably useless scope in the first place?
That is if a [theoretical] shooter would have known it could not be trusted :-\

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2022, 09:04:44 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2022, 12:30:37 AM »
This question contains a false premise as it implies that Oswald's scope was "wonky" at the time he used his rifle to assassinate JFK.  However, no one knows the condition of Oswald's scope at the time of the assassination.  His rifle was hidden behind some boxes after the assassination (i.e. dropped).  The authorities actually removed the scope to search for prints before testing the rifle.  So it is impossible to say whether Oswald's scope was "wonky" at the time he used it to assassinate JFK and, for similar reasons, impossible to compare to any other situation.  What we do know is that Oswald and Whitman received similar training in the USMC on how to use a rifle.  Neither were a novice with a rifle and it was an easy shot for Oswald with his training with or without a scope.

This question contains a false premise as it implies that Oswald's scope was "wonky" at the time he used his rifle to assassinate JFK.  However, no one knows the condition of Oswald's scope at the time of the assassination.

If nobody knows what the condition of the scope was, then how do you know that the question contains a false premise?

His rifle was hidden behind some boxes after the assassination (i.e. dropped).

How do you know the rifle was dropped?

What we do know is that Oswald and Whitman received similar training in the USMC on how to use a rifle.  Neither were a novice with a rifle and it was an easy shot for Oswald with his training with or without a scope.

And how exactly do "we" know that is was an easy shot for Oswald (or anybody else)?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 12:33:45 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2022, 12:30:37 AM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2022, 01:26:48 AM »
According to Robert Oswald (in his book) LHO was home on leave around the end of February 1957. And they went hunting for squirrels. LHO was the only one who shot anything. It turned out to be a ring-tailed cat. These are related to the raccoon family and only grow to be between 1.5 and 3.3 pounds. Robert doesn’t elaborate on all the details and circumstances. But, generally speaking, one needs to be a pretty good shot to hit such a small animal in the wild.

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2022, 01:26:48 AM »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2022, 01:29:33 AM »
Oswald flaunts his commie papers, pistol on the hip, scoped rifle... maybe a smirk or two.
He's going for a look.. a 'vibe'

Yo, if you can't be good, at least look good


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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2022, 01:29:33 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2022, 01:36:04 AM »
According to Robert Oswald (in his book) LHO was home on leave around the end of February 1957. And they went hunting for squirrels. LHO was the only one who shot anything. It turned out to be a ring-tailed cat. These are related to the raccoon family and only grow to be between 1.5 and 3.3 pounds. Robert doesn’t elaborate on all the details and circumstances. But, generally speaking, one needs to be a pretty good shot to hit such a small animal in the wild.

But, generally speaking, one needs to be a pretty good shot to hit such a small animal in the wild.

Or just a lucky one

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2022, 01:36:04 AM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2022, 01:58:22 AM »
Oswald flaunts his commie papers, pistol on the hip, scoped rifle... maybe a smirk or two.
He's going for a look.. a 'vibe'

Yo, if you can't be good, at least look good

Yes indeed....Look good for this silly carnival  photo.... After all I'm trying to portray myself as a rough and ready communist revolutionary.....

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2022, 01:58:22 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2022, 03:09:28 AM »
But, generally speaking, one needs to be a pretty good shot to hit such a small animal in the wild.

Or just a lucky one
Ring tail cats are almost exclusively nocturnal BTW.
They are rarely seen.
If Oswald was such a crack shot...why didn't he rate an Expert badge?
If he was such a prospective killer...why didn't he go on to sniper school instead of becoming a pansy radar tech?

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2022, 03:09:28 AM »

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Did Oswalds rifle scope ever have shims?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2022, 06:19:26 AM »

Right, happy to see you eventually figured it out.

However, your fine math doesn't support the claim that Oswald pulled the trigger.

How unfortunate!

No, it doesn’t. No math can do that. But what math can do is:

1.   Answer a common CT question. If Oswald was the assassin, why did he miss the easiest shot, at 43 yards, but miss the hardest shot at 88 yards.

Because the target for the first and, so called “easiest shot” had an angular speed of 4.8 degrees per second.
And the target for the second shot had an angular speed of 1.9 degrees per second.
And the target for the third and, so called “hardest shot” had an angular speed of 0.58 degrees per second.

And so, this provides an explanation of why the shots missed the center of the head by over 60 inches, then 8 inches, then 2 inches. As the angular speed of the target got less and less, the shots became more and more accurate.

2.   Show the sights helped compensate for the movement of the target. If the rifle was, somehow, which was impossible, given the same time available, adjusted for the correct ranges (for a stationary target), the rifle would miss low by 6.1 inches for the second shot and miss low by 3.7 inches for the third. But, with the Carcano zero sighted for 200 meters, the rifle would miss 1.5 inches low for the second shot and miss 1.7 inches high for the third. The Carcano rifle, by sheer luck, and not by design, provides a pretty good lead for all three shots.

So, I hold that math, alone, can provide some pretty good insights about Oswald’s shooting, and make some things that seem surprising about the Oswald shooting sequence not that surprising after all.

 

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