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Author Topic: The Initials Of FBI Agent Elmer Todd Are On CE399 (Hi-Def Photo Proof)  (Read 22637 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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So what, Dave? There are plenty of bullet fragments in this case when they hit the skull, shattering throughout the car. Yet, this alleged bullet is supposed to have gone through Kennedy and into Connally, hitting one of the hardest bones in the body, yet comes out remarkably in good shape.

I always love it when I see another speak authoritatively on a subject that they (obviously) know nothing about.

The bullet (CE-399) leaves the muzzle of the Carcano traveling around 2100 feet per second.

The bullet, traveling roughly 1700 feet per second, strikes Kennedy in the upper back and exits the neck.

The bullet, now slowed having passed through Kennedy's neck, hits Connally in the back, causing an 8mm x 15mm elliptical wound. This wound measurement proves that the bullet was tumbling when it hit Connally's back, proof that the bullet had passed through something else BEFORE hitting Connally in the back.

The bullet, now traveling at around 1300 to 1400 feet per second, strikes Connally's fifth rib, completely shattering it.  Damage to the bullet was minimal due to the fact that it was not traveling anywhere near full speed when it struck the rib.

The bullet exits Connally's chest and while traveling less than half(?) of it's original rate of speed, enters the right wrist, striking the radius bone.  Again, damage to the bullet is minimal because of it's slow rate of speed when it struck the radius.

Basically, the bullet was traveling fast enough to cause damage to bones, but not fast enough to be damaged by impact with the bones.  Every traveling bullet has a threshold where it is moving fast enough to destroy but not fast enough to be destroyed.  Because it first passed through Kennedy, this bullet was within that threshold when it struck Connally's rib.

The bullet exits the palm side of the wrist and while traveling at less than one-fifth of it's original speed, enters the left thigh and embedding itself in the thigh muscles.  The bullet didn't go any further because it was not traveling fast enough upon striking the thigh.

The bottom line is that damage to the bullet was minimal because, when it struck rib bone and radius bone, it simply had been slowed considerably, moving too slowly to be damaged.  The bullet would have been greatly fragmented (basically destroyed), if when it struck the radius bone in Connally's right wrist, it was traveling at the same rate of speed as it was when it struck Kennedy in the upper back.

(The various velocities I mention above are only my estimates but they should get the point across)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2022, 09:26:31 PM by Bill Brown »

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Online Martin Weidmann

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I always love it when I see another speak authoritatively on a subject that they (obviously) know nothing about.

The bullet (CE-399) leaves the muzzle of the Carcano traveling around 2100 feet per second.

The bullet, traveling roughly 1700 feet per second, strikes Kennedy in the upper back and exits the neck.

The bullet, now slowed having passed through Kennedy's neck, hits Connally in the back, causing an 8mm x 15mm elliptical wound. This wound measurement proves that the bullet was tumbling when it hit Connally's back, proof that the bullet had passed through something else BEFORE hitting Connally in the back.

The bullet, now traveling at around 1300 to 1400 feet per second, strikes Connally's fifth rib, completely shattering it.  Damage to the bullet was minimal due to the fact that it was not traveling anywhere near full speed when it struck the rib.

The bullet exits Connally's chest and while traveling less than half(?) of it's original rate of speed, enters the right wrist, striking the radius bone.  Again, damage to the bullet is minimal because of it's slow rate of speed when it struck the radius.

Basically, the bullet was traveling fast enough to cause damage to bones, but not fast enough to be damaged by impact with the bones.  Every traveling bullet has a threshold where it is moving fast enough to destroy but not fast enough to be destroyed.  Because it first passed through Kennedy, this bullet was within that threshold when it struck Connally's rib.

The bullet exits the palm side of the wrist and while traveling at less than one-fifth of it's original speed, enters the left thigh and embedding itself in the thigh muscles.  The bullet didn't go any further because it was not traveling fast enough upon striking the thigh.

The bottom line is that damage to the bullet was minimal because, when it struck rib bone and radius bone, it simply had been slowed considerably, moving too slowly to be damaged.  The bullet would have been greatly fragmented (basically destroyed), if when it struck the radius bone in Connally's right wrist, it was traveling at the same rate of speed as it was when it struck Kennedy in the upper back.

(The various velocities I mention above are only my estimates but they should get the point across)

I always love it when I see another speak authoritatively on a subject that they (obviously) know nothing about.

You would know all about that, right?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Someone hands Todd a slug and says.. "here- put your initials on this" and Todd does it.
                                                                So what?
The bullet (CE-399) leaves the muzzle of the Carcano traveling around 2100 feet per second....
blah blah
All those trajectories and calculations are derived from where exactly?
Please quote references...If you will.

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Offline Bill Brown

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Someone hands Todd a slug and says.. "here- put your initials on this" and Todd does it.
                                                                So what? blah blah
All those trajectories and calculations are derived from where exactly?
Please quote references...If you will.

Start with Larry Sturdivan and his findings, related to the HSCA.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Start with Larry Sturdivan and his findings, related to the HSCA.

Where exactly did Sturdivan say the bullet now in evidence as CE399 (WC) left the muzzle of the Carcano traveling around 2100 feet per second?

In his HSCA testimony, I can see him talking about similarities and differences between test bullets he fired and CE399 but I couldn't find him saying anything about CE399 leaving the muzzle of the Carcano.

You wouldn't have just made that up, like you did with Butler's second "602" call?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 12:07:30 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline John Iacoletti

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Nobody knows how fast any of the bullets that struck Kennedy or Connally were traveling.

Online David Von Pein

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At The Education Forum today, when talking about Elmer Todd's initials being located on CE399, Vince Palamara said:

"That "E" and "T" look mighty big (and awkward) to have been missed by ANYONE all these years. A clumsy, awkward late addition?"

I think Vince needs to take into consideration the fact that the photograph that contains the "ET" marking on CE399 is a picture of the bullet that has been zoomed-in and enlarged considerably in order to highlight the "ET" area being focused on.

In order to put the actual size of the bullet into better perspective, here's a montage photo I created that shows on the left side a human hand holding Commission Exhibit 399 and on the right is the new hi-def photo of the nose end of the bullet with Elmer Todd's initials:



I think it's clear when looking at the "bullet in the hand" photo on the left that those "ET" initials occupy a very very small amount of space at the nose end of that bullet.

The full length of a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet like CE399 is only about 1.2 inches (per the Warren Commission testimony of FBI firearms examiner Robert A. Frazier). So the actual size of Elmer Todd's "ET" mark on the bullet must surely be measured in mere millimeters.

So perspective plays a huge role in explaining why Todd's markings look so large to Vincent Palamara.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 07:02:58 PM by David Von Pein »

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Online Sean Kneringer

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What instrument would they use to carve their initials? A key?