Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed  (Read 24229 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2022, 03:11:36 AM »
Advertisement
Another thing that’s pathetically sad is that “Richard Smith” thinks his rants about Lincoln somehow make his misinformation about the JFK evidence any more true.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2022, 03:11:36 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7407
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2022, 03:17:48 AM »

A presumption of innocence applies to an adversarial criminal trial with prosecution and defense cases being presented. That presumption is designed to place the burden on the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It effectively protects the accused against having to prove non-guilt.

In this particular circumstance LHO was not on trial. Therefore, technically, your question isn’t applicable to this case. An investigation is not a trial. The WC drew it’s conclusions based on the results of the investigation and stated their reasoning in the report. Contrary to your earlier claim, this was a proper legal setting for this particular circumstance. A trial, and all of its procedures, would not have been a proper legal setting.

So many words and still not an answer to my question.

A presumption of innocence applies to an adversarial criminal trial with prosecution and defense cases being presented.

No, a presumption of innocence until proven guilty applies always. Even outside a court, when you accuse me of doing something wrong, you need to prove it either to law enforcement or just people around you. You can not go around accusing somebody of doing something wrong without proving it! If that wasn't the case, I could accuse you right now of robbing a bank, rape and whatever else comes to mind without consequence. Your reply would be - quite rightly so - that you didn't do any of it and that there is no evidence to support the claims. So, don't give me any of this theoretical crap!

In this particular circumstance LHO was not on trial. Therefore, technically, your question isn’t applicable to this case. An investigation is not a trial. The WC drew it’s conclusions based on the results of the investigation and stated their reasoning in the report.

So, basically what you are saying is that the WC could find an already dead Oswald guilty, without there ever having been a trial and that somehow means you can argue that he is guilty, despite the fact that he never had his day in court. Do you understand how insane that is?

It's in fact pathethic beyond belief. Oswald is being declared guilty by a commission, without ever having been on trial and despite the fact that the commission's opinion is in no way a legal finding of guilt, we, according to you and your ilk, still have to consider Oswald to somehow be proven guilty... Is that what you are really saying? When did this country become a third world banana republic?

An investigation is not a trial. The WC drew it’s conclusions based on the results of the investigation and stated their reasoning in the report.

It is true that an investigation is not a trial. But, as a trial is the only setting where somebody can be found guilty or innocent by a jury of his peers, the conclusions of the commission can in no way be considered to be a legal verdict of guilt, right? So. why are you and your ilk still claiming that Oswald was proven to be guilty?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 03:26:31 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2022, 03:20:15 AM »
The Oswald defenders, for some unknown reason, want to use this legalistic standard - "chain of custody" and other legal rules - to throw out the evidence against him.

Wrong. WC skeptics want you to authenticate the evidence that you are basing your conclusions on (or more often demonstrate the relevance of what you call “evidence”). And you cannot do it.

If you were interested in the truth you would admit that instead of engaging in prosecuting lawyer-like tactics.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2022, 03:20:15 AM »


Offline David Von Pein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2022, 03:25:15 AM »
Btw, Bug said he wrote RH as if he was at trial, exaggerating on purpose

When did Vince ever say that?

Maybe he did say it. But I can't recall it. Can you point me to where he says that within his RH book? Or in one of his dozens of 2007 book tour interviews that I have archived?....

http://Vincent-Bugliosi.blogspot.com
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 03:47:48 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10810
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2022, 03:28:31 AM »
There were multiple different witnesses who identified LHO as the person at the Tippit scene

Eyewitness identification is unreliable under the best of circumstances. The ones that were done in this case were so egregiously unfair and biased that they are utterly worthless.

Quote
Oswald was arrested a short distance away with the gun and in possession of the SAME two brands of ammo used to kill Tippit. 

Still false. No matter how many times you parrot it.

Quote
Oswald instead pulled his gun and engaged in a struggle.

Still false. No matter how many times you parrot it.

Quote
It's a slam dunk.

Still false. No matter how many times you parrot it.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2022, 03:28:31 AM »


Offline David Von Pein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
Re: Oswald's Obvious Guilt In The Murder Of J.D. Tippit
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2022, 03:40:13 AM »
Oswald had the Tippit murder weapon in his possession when he was arrested (which was a mere 35 minutes after Tippit was shot). We know Oswald had "The Tippit Murder Weapon" because all 4 bullet shell casings that littered 10th Street and Patton Avenue were matched conclusively to the revolver Oswald had on him in the Texas Theater. (CTer whining and moaning about this notwithstanding, of course.)

So, it's time to post my favorite graphic/logo again:


« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 04:31:23 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2022, 07:12:58 AM »
When did Vince ever say that?

Maybe he did say it. But I can't recall it. Can you point me to where he says that within his RH book? Or in one of his dozens of 2007 book tour interviews that I have archived?....

http://Vincent-Bugliosi.blogspot.com

I didn't see it in his book. It's not from your material. I recall reading it from an article, but I don't recall if I took a screen shot.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 07:14:20 AM by Bill Chapman »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2022, 07:12:58 AM »


Offline David Von Pein

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
Re: David Von Pein's "evidence" deconstructed
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2022, 07:19:16 AM »
I didn't see it in his book. It's not from your material. I recall reading it from an article, but I don't recall if I took a screen shot.

If you find it, let me know. I'd like to see it. I have my own doubts about whether Vince would have ever said something like that. Because a blatant comment like that would just give the CTers another reason to criticize him (for not being totally unbiased).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2022, 07:20:31 AM by David Von Pein »