The Assassination and Mrs. Paine

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Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2022, 07:29:59 PM »
This article describes the unusual beliefs of one of Max Good's "featured" experts:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2022/07/the-assassination-and-mrs-paine-strange.html
Strange understates it. He makes Garrison seem reasonable.

So his evidence, in part, that Michael Paine - not Ruth but Michael - was involved is this:

"His [Michael's] father was George Lyman Paine, a leading Trotskyian of the West Coast. Michael Paine works for Bell Helicopter. Thatís secret clearance! You donít get that without a quid pro quo! Heís an agent! You know that immediately."

Well, try and untangle that gibberish. Let's see Paine's father was a Trotskyite and that means he, Michael was what exactly? How does that connect him to the assassination? And you don't get a security clearance without a "quid pro quo"? From who? What's the quo? What do you get? Lots of people who work on government programs get security clearances. It's required. That doesn't make them agents; and agent for who, the CIA, the Pentagon?

This is not strange, it's insane. Typical Garrisonite conspiracy thinking. But I think even Garrison had his limits.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2022, 08:45:53 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2022, 07:29:59 PM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »
Strange understates it. He makes Garrison seem reasonable.

So his evidence, in part, that Michael Paine - not Ruth but Michael - was involved is this:

"His [Michael's] father was George Lyman Paine, a leading Trotskyian of the West Coast. Michael Paine works for Bell Helicopter. Thatís secret clearance! You donít get that without a quid pro quo! Heís an agent! You know that immediately."

Well, try and untangle that gibberish. Let's see Paine's father was a Trotskyite and that means he, Michael was what exactly? How does that connect him to the assassination? And you don't get a security clearance without a "quid pro quo"? From who? What's the quo? What do you get? Lots of people who work on government programs get security clearances. It's required. That doesn't make them agents; and agent for who, the CIA, the Pentagon?

This is not strange, it's insane. Typical Garrisonite conspiracy thinking. But I think even Garrison had his limits.

Wasn't it JFK who said "we're in nut country now?" That's the way I felt when I read Salandria's piece. He is often held up as this amazing guy who wrote all these great articles, but I don't see it. I'm sure he was a smart and good man but that's where it ends for me.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2022, 09:52:38 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2022, 12:26:10 AM »
Wasn't it JFK who said "we're in nut country now?" That's the way I felt when I read Salandria's piece. He is often held up as this amazing guy who wrote all these great articles, but I don't see it. I'm sure he was a smart and good man but that's where it ends for me.

I've also heard/read about Salandria as being one of the "wise men" of the conspiracy movement, an accomplished lawyer and serious person and not some guy in his underwear in his basement staring at photos of the assassination and seeing Howard Hunt or Lansdale or George Bush lurking in the background. Then we read these claims from him? His reasoning. It's bizarre. It's an indicator of how they've gone off the rails if he and his thinking is considered the gold standard.

To them and to Salandria, it's not about the assassination, the actual shooting; it's about the subversion of democracy, about how JFK threatened the "real rulers" of America and it was for that that he was struck down. Stone captured this thinking perfectly with his movie (of course, it's his thinking too). So they search and search for evidence that supports this view. Some CIA operation, some Cold War intrigue, some figure....anything that they jam into their explanation.

Anything here meaning roles (and not minor ones either) for Michael and Ruth Paine in the assassination. They must - they just must - fit into this somehow. But to do so we have these claims about Trotsky and security clearances and quid pro quos and Ruth's note taking and her sister and a calendar and this or that meaningless "factoid". To us it's nothing; but to a conspiracy mind it has to be evidence of something more. There are no innocent explanations. There are never innocent explanations. There can't be innocent explanations. Otherwise this house of conspiracy cards falls apart.



« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 07:15:13 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2022, 12:26:10 AM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2022, 01:27:06 AM »
Good analysis Steve.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2022, 01:27:06 AM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2022, 03:28:53 PM »
Good analysis Steve.
As you know, this is often like re-fighting the Cold War and debating the legitimacy of the US's response to the Soviets. The conspiracy believers (certainly the Garrison believers like Stone et al.) think all of those post-war actions were unjustified, that they were done by essentially fascists who used the imagined threat from Moscow to hijack America and attain power. JFK threatened them and their power and they killed him in response.

Then everything is reverse engineered from this vieow to prove their conspiracy.

Things large and small are used to support it: Michael had a security clearance that shows he was an agent, Ruth went to Nicaragua to monitor pro-Sandinistas, David Phillips was seen with Oswald who he controlled, JFK was going to leave Vietnam, normalize relations with Castro, dismantle the CIA....these are the big things and the small ones that are all evidence of the conspiracy.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2022, 07:14:19 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #84 on: July 09, 2022, 03:28:53 PM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2022, 05:47:10 PM »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2022, 05:47:10 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2022, 11:34:21 PM »
Are some critics of Ruth Paine prejudiced?

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2022/07/the-assassination-and-mrs-paine-are.html
Where did David Talbot come up with the evidence for this claim?:

"I interviewed both Michael and Ruth Paine for my book The Devil's Chessboard. As I wrote, they were both well-known to former CIA spymaster Allen Dulles, who made a practice of using "white mice" like them."

Where is the evidence that the Paines were "well-known" to Dulles? A Quaker housewife in Ft. Worth, Texas was "well known" to Dulles? "White mice" means what here? I'm not familiar with that term.

I know I'm repeating myself but this is the problem with the JFK assassination conspiracists, the political types who see the Cold War as a lie. Talbot is a text book leftwinger, an anti- anti-communist like Oliver Stone who sees a sinister "secret state" running American foreign policy (and some domestic) during the Cold War. In this version the threat from the Soviets was an illusion, a fable foisted on the American people and used by these fascist like people for power. They really do think the Cold War was caused by us and not Moscow. Morley, Oliver Stone, Garrison and his followers.....
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 12:06:13 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2022, 11:34:21 PM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2022, 04:24:11 PM »
Their "evidence" is that Michael Paine's mother knew Mary Bancroft who was a mistress of Dulles. But the actual evidence that Ruth or Michael knew Dulles is zero. White mice? I don't know-maybe Talbot thinks they were experiments that Dulles was running? Again-no evidence.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2022, 04:24:11 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2022, 04:28:29 PM »
Their "evidence" is that Michael Paine's mother knew Mary Bancroft who was a mistress of Dulles. But the actual evidence that Ruth or Michael knew Dulles is zero. White mice? I don't know-maybe Talbot thinks they were experiments that Dulles was running? Again-no evidence.

Where is Tom Scully now that we need him?  He is a master at playing this CTer Kevin Bacon game.  Someone went to school with a person who married the sister of someone who once lived next door to someone who once attended a funeral of the uncle of Dulles.  Therefore they are complicit in a plot to kill JFK etc.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2022, 04:28:29 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2022, 04:44:38 PM »
Their "evidence" is that Michael Paine's mother knew Mary Bancroft who was a mistress of Dulles. But the actual evidence that Ruth or Michael knew Dulles is zero. White mice? I don't know-maybe Talbot thinks they were experiments that Dulles was running? Again-no evidence.
Thanks. Garrison's "propinquity" without any connection or proximity between/among the individuals. In other words, nothing.

Didn't Paine's mother know Bancroft in college before she (Bancroft) became Dulles's mistress? Did she know Bancroft at the time of this affair? As if that matters. And how the heck would Michael Paine know that a friend of his mother's knew Dulles? Again, as if that matters. In any case, as you point out, there's no evidence that Dulles knew Michael or Ruth Paine much less they were "well-known" to him.

This is a classic example of how some (too many noted ones) conspiracists need to expand their conspiracy when new evidence is found. Does it fit? It doesn't matter, it's just more kindling for the conspiracy bonfire, a fire they just need to keep burning decade after decade. It's not about resolving what happened (although they think they have); it's now a game to keep things going. On and on....

Just to add: Talbot also says RFK was murdered by the assassins of JFK to prevent him from revealing the conspiracy. But of course.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 08:10:44 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

 

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