The Assassination and Mrs. Paine


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Offline Paul J Cummings

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2022, 10:58:43 PM »
I will take an expert like John Newman and his research who through documentation proves Kennedy's plans.

JFK and Vietnam again? There are two separate questions, questions that bizarre conspiracy advocates like Jim DiEugenio don't see to be able to separate. The first is: "What did JFK plan to do on November 22, 1963?" The second and different question is: "What would JFK have done once it was shown that the South Vietnamese government was incapable of defending itself from the North's aggression without US help?"

The answer to me for the first is: He had no plans to simply leave at the time of his death. The plan was to draw down US troops as the South was able to take on more of the war. But simply not pull out.

Here's a critical quote from the top secret Pentagon Papers which contained the classified memos and communications between the Kennedy White House, State Department and the Pentagon, on the Administration's policies towards South Vietnam following the overthrow of Diem:

"In the course of these policy debates [i.e., how to deal with Diem], several participants pursued the logical but painful conclusion that if the war could not be won with Diem, and if his removal would lead to political chaos and also jeopardize the war effort, then the war was probably unwinnable. If that were the case, the argument went, then the U.S. should really be facing a more basic decision of either an orderly disengagement from an irretrievable situation, or a major escalation of the U.S. involvement, including the use of U.S. combat troops. These prophetic minority voices were, however, raising an unpleasant prospect that the [Kennedy] Administration was unprepared to face at that time. In hindsight, however, it is clear that this was one of the times in the history of our Vietnam involvement when we were making fundamental choices. The option to disengage honorably at that time now appears an attractively low-cost one. But for the Kennedy Administration the costs no doubt appeared much higher. In any event, it proved to be unwilling to accept the implications of predictions for a bleak future. The Administration hewed to the belief that if the US be but willing to exercise its power, it could ultimately have its way in world affairs.

Again: "The Administration [at the time of JFK's death] hewed to the belief that if the US be but willing to exercise its power, it could ultimately have its way in world affairs."

In their accounts of their time in the Administration, McNamara, Rusk and Bundy - along with RFK - all said that there was no plan - none - at the time of JFK's death to leave. None at all.

As to the second question: Nobody knows. I don't think even JFK, if asked at the time, could give an answer.  He would have faced the same problem that LBJ did: surrender the South to the North with all of the consequences that entails, e.g., massive refugee crisis that spills over to the rest of the region, loss of US credibility in that part of the world, et cetera; or send in troops in hopes that American force is sufficient to win.

The Pentagon Papers link is here: https://nara-media-001.s3.amazonaws.com/arcmedia/research/pentagon-papers/Pentagon-Papers-Part-IV-B-5.pdf

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2022, 10:58:43 PM »


Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2022, 05:32:41 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2022, 06:18:53 PM »
Robert McNamara, the secretary of defense for JFK, said there was no plan to just pull out of Vietnam at the time of the assassination.

Dean Rusk, the secretary of state for JFK, said there was no plan to just pull out of Vietnam at that time.

RFK said there was no plan to just pull out at the time of the assassination.

The Pentagon Papers, which includes the then top secret cables and communications between the JFK White House, the Pentagon and the State Department, shows there was no plan to simply leave.

The plan was, again, to draw the troops down as the South was able, through US assistance, to take on the war by itself. The first was contingent on the second.

This is not me saying there was no plan to just leave. This is the above sources saying it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 10:09:04 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2022, 06:18:53 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2022, 06:43:39 PM »
Did Ruth Paine spy for the CIA in Nicaragua?

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2022/06/the-assassination-and-mrs-paine-ruth_30.html
So, Ruth Paine, a self-professed Quaker pacifist (and no, Nixon was not a pacifist Quaker; he volunteered to fight in WWII in the Navy), housewife and mother of two children was in reality a modern day Madame Defarge who was:

A CIA agent collecting name of pro-Castro people (in Ft. Worth, Texas);
A CIA agent manipulating/controlling/directing Lee Oswald and setting him up for the murder of JFK;
An FBI informant reporting on Oswald's actions;
A CIA agent infiltrating the White Russian community and monitoring them;
A CIA agent sent to Nicaragua to monitor and report on pro-Sandinista/pacifist groups opposed to US policy in Central America.

What am I leaving out? Right, I forgot: she really wanted an affair with Marina. That was also her motive.
 
Here's an idea for a movie: "The Attack of Killer Lesbian CIA Agents who Murdered JFK." I can sell the script to Oliver Stone.

You just throw up your hands. This is insanity, pure insanity.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 07:39:55 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2022, 08:42:43 PM »
So, Ruth Paine, a self-professed Quaker pacifist (and no, Nixon was not a pacifist Quaker; he volunteered to fight in WWII in the Navy), housewife and mother of two children was in reality a modern day Madame Defarge who was:

A CIA agent collecting name of pro-Castro people (in Ft. Worth, Texas);
A CIA agent manipulating/controlling/directing Lee Oswald and setting him up for the murder of JFK;
An FBI informant reporting on Oswald's actions;
A CIA agent infiltrating the White Russian community and monitoring them;
A CIA agent sent to Nicaragua to monitor and report on pro-Sandinista/pacifist groups opposed to US policy in Central America.


Yeah, the CT people think she was very busy. And this was in addition to her day job as a school psychologist.  ;D


Here's an idea for a movie: "The Attack of Killer Lesbian CIA Agents who Murdered JFK." I can sell the script to Oliver Stone.

You could have a whole new career Steve!   :)

Offline Paul J Cummings

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2022, 09:40:21 PM »
What year was she a school psychologist?

Yeah, the CT people think she was very busy. And this was in addition to her day job as a school psychologist.  ;D

You could have a whole new career Steve!   :)

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2022, 09:40:21 PM »


Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2022, 01:37:49 AM »
What year was she a school psychologist?

I'm not sure of all of the years that she worked in that capacity but in the 1986 mock trial she identified herself as a "school psychologist." My understanding is that she became an administrator later on. Someone please jump in if that is not correct.

Online David Von Pein

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2022, 09:23:41 AM »
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 09:24:07 AM by David Von Pein »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2022, 09:23:41 AM »


 

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