The Assassination and Mrs. Paine

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Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #100 on: July 21, 2022, 11:46:27 PM »
The conspiracy believers, those that argue the Paines were directly involved, have Ruth Paine doing things to frame Oswald that she couldn't do - like finding and getting Oswald a job at the TSBD, at that specific building on Elm Street, with access to that specific floor and window on November 22, 1963 - and not doing things to frame Oswald that she could do - like say that she saw the rifle in the garage or that he expressed anti-JFK views or that he left work that day carrying a 38 inch package.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #100 on: July 21, 2022, 11:46:27 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2022, 12:07:18 AM »
If Ruth Paine were part of some effort to frame Oswald, she would undoubtedly have said things like Oswald hated JFK, kept a rifle in her garage, seemed nervous or agitated on the night before the assassination, and carried a long bag as he left the house that morning.

If she had, you would undoubtably consider that legitimate evidence against Oswald and not a frame job.  That's what's known as trying to have it both ways.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2022, 12:07:18 AM »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2022, 08:39:56 PM »
If she had, you would undoubtably consider that legitimate evidence against Oswald and not a frame job.  That's what's known as trying to have it both ways.

The above is a perfect example of responding to a post without actually addressing the point raised in the post.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2022, 08:39:56 PM »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2022, 09:02:39 PM »
The above is a perfect example of responding to a post without actually addressing the point raised in the post.
As I wrote above, it is obvious to us that if Ruth and Michael Paine were indeed CIA assets/agents directed to frame Oswald that they could have said many things that would have destroyed him, that would have implicated him in the assassination. Things they did not say at all.

They could have tied him directly to that rifle. They could have provided a direct motive. They could have described a person that was erratic and had shown signs of violence that would have persuaded people that he was capable emotionally and psychologically of killing two people and essentially committing suicide in doing so.

But they did and said none of those things. Not a thing.

The answer to these failure to do so is? What can the explanation be? Hand waving and distractions is not a try. It's a dodge.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 09:11:20 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2022, 09:02:39 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2022, 09:07:18 PM »
The above is a perfect example of responding to a post without actually addressing the point raised in the post.

Just like you did, time after time, in our mini-debate....

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #104 on: July 22, 2022, 09:07:18 PM »

Offline W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2022, 03:14:38 PM »

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2022, 03:14:38 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2022, 08:18:07 PM »
The conspiracy believers, those that argue the Paines were directly involved, have Ruth Paine doing things to frame Oswald that she couldn't do - like finding and getting Oswald a job at the TSBD, at that specific building on Elm Street, with access to that specific floor and window on November 22, 1963 - and not doing things to frame Oswald that she could do - like say that she saw the rifle in the garage or that he expressed anti-JFK views or that he left work that day carrying a 38 inch package.

In the conspiracy chain of events, Ruth also has to convince Oswald's wife to move in with her, the Fraziers to live down the street, Buell to get a job at the TSBD, Oswald to apply for a job, Truly to hire him, Oswald to stay on the job until 11.22...etc.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2022, 08:18:07 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2022, 08:22:28 PM »
In the conspiracy chain of events, Ruth also has to convince Oswald's wife to move in with her, the Fraziers to live down the street, Buell to get a job at the TSBD, Oswald to apply for a job, Truly to hire him, Oswald to stay on the job until 11.22...etc.

You forget that she also had to ensure that the sun came up, that the power grid didn't fail and the airport remained open.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2022, 08:22:28 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2022, 08:28:06 PM »
The conspiracy believers, those that argue the Paines were directly involved..
That one sure started off as a catch all. The key word being.. directly.
I suggest that Ruth Paine willingly made herself quite useful.
From Paine's testimony---
Quote
Mr. LIEBELER - Yes. Did she tell you of any detail of what the argument was about--what the situation was?
Mrs. PAINE - Well, she said that she felt he should not be using an alias. It wasn't contained in anything that was said, but I got the feeling that she was upset with his doing this or thinking that he should or could do it.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did she tell you whether or not Oswald had told her why he was using the alias?
Mrs. PAINE - She did not tell me anything about why.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any ideas as to why he might be doing it?
Mrs. PAINE - Well, I did suppose the possibility--it is possible that he was worried about it being found out at the School Book Depository that he had a Russian wife. He did ask me to ask Mrs. Randle to ask Frazier not to ask questions, not to discuss the fact that he had a Russian wife with the coworkers at the School Book Depository. I think he felt that, if this was known, it would also become known that he went to Russia and the circumstances of that, and he felt, and this was a sheer guess on my part, and I judge that he felt this would make his job tenure unsure.
Mr. LIEBELER - In other words, you do say, however, that Oswald did ask you to ask Mrs. Randle to ask Wesley Frazier not to talk about Oswald's Russian wife at the School Book Depository; is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - That's right; so that my impression is supported to that extent.
              [What does that mean?]
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ask Mrs. Randle to ask Mr. Frazier to do that?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know whether or not she did?
Mrs. PAINE - She said she had already discussed it and she judged that they would not be talking about it.
                      [Why would Randle have "already" discussed Oswald's wife?]
Mr. LIEBELER - You. You don't know whether Mrs. Randle ever specifically mentioned it to Frazier after you talked to her?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I don't know that.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember when Oswald asked you to do that?
Mrs. PAINE - It was very shortly after he got the job--it was in the first week, I would say.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did Marina tell you that she was angry with Oswald for using this alias?
Mrs. PAINE - It was clear that she was angry--on the face of it.
That whole concept is stupid. It was never concretely established that Oswald was deliberately living under an alias. The somewhat clouded housekeeper may have written down what she thought he said when she asked his name. Further..why would a lowly order filler at a book warehouse be scrutinized for having a foreign wife?
If he wanted to use an alias..why didn't he use Alek Hidell?
And even if he wanted to use an alias could it not be that Oswald wanted to live incognito from the prying eyes of the FBI or any other entity that might be tracking him? So why would Marina be upset with that?
From the Parnell article----
Quote
The evidence shows that while in Mexico, Oswald did indeed travel by bus and phone the Soviet embassy about a visa. He may or may not have bought the bracelet in Mexico and probably didn't attend the Jai-Alai game since he likely didn't have proper attire. But at the very least, some of this evidence is suggestive of a trip south of the border...But while Oswald's presence or absence in Mexico City is crucial to most conspiracy theories it is irrelevant when contemplating his guilt in the murders of JFK and Tippit.
 
Actually..the items [were they really ever entered as evidence?] in question APPEARS to show that he went to Mexico [ignoring that two people saw him in Dallas at that same time]

"But while Oswald's presence or absence in Mexico City is crucial to most conspiracy theories it is irrelevant when contemplating his guilt in the murders of JFK and Tippit."
If Oswald was not in Mexico it certainly demonstrates that someone made it appear that he was and that sinister workings were afoot suggesting a conspiracy in the works.

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2022, 08:28:06 PM »

Offline W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: The Assassination and Mrs. Paine
« Reply #109 on: July 29, 2022, 12:56:47 AM »

If Oswald was not in Mexico it certainly demonstrates that someone made it appear that he was and that sinister workings were afoot suggesting a conspiracy in the works.

But there is powerful evidence that he was (Bugliosi has 14 points). And most of it does not come from Ruth.

 

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