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Author Topic: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63  (Read 2122 times)

Offline Michael Welch

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Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« on: May 02, 2022, 03:10:05 AM »
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The wind in Dealey Plaza was blowing from the southwest to the northeast. Officer Bobby Hargis stated that he was hit by so much blood and brain matter that he thought he was hit with concrete. He was to the left rear of the presidential limousine. To his left was Officer B. J. Martin. Officer Hargis covered Officer Martin's right side at the exact moment of the fatal head shot. Officer Martin was on the very edge of the south side of Elm Street. The left side of his uniform, his helmet, and his motorcycle's windshield were splattered with blood and brain matter. In order for these materials to reach Officer Martin and his motorcycle, the fatal head shot had to come from the front. Sincerely yours, Michael
Mr. BALL. He was parallel to you on another motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; we were --
Mr. BALL. Two motorcycles abreast?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. As you turned onto Houston from Main, can you tell me about the speed of the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. My estimation would be 4 to 5 miles an hour when we made the turn onto Elm Street from Houston.
Mr. BALL. From Houston?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you make the turn from Main to Houston about the same speed?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; we were going a little faster, I would say - between probably 10 and 15 miles an hour.
Mr. BALL. And then the block between Main and Elm, did the motorcade. slow down?
Mr. MARTIN. It slowed down just before we made the turn onto Elm Street.
Mr. BALL. Let's take the President's car - what do you think the speed of the President's car was as you made that turn from Houston onto Elm?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe the speed was about 4 or 5 miles an hour.
Mr. BALL. What was your speed?
Mr. MARTIN. Approximately the same - maybe a mile slower.
Mr. BALL. Were you able to maintain your position on the two-wheeler motor cycle?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I believe I did.
Mr. BALL. What is the minimum speed at which you can maintain the position of that motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. About 2 miles per hour, I would Imagine.
Mr. BALL. Did the President's car pick up any speed from the corner of Houston and Elm - we'll say half way down that hill?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I don't recall it picking up any speed in there.
Mr. BALL. They were going fairly slow?
Mr. MARTIN. It may have picked up, gradually picked up. but not enough that I could notice.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear any unusual noise?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I heard a shot, or what I thought at the time to be a shot.
Mr. BALL. What was the position of your motorcycle at that time with reference to the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. Just to the rear of his car - on the left rear of his car.
Mr. BALL. How far from the car, I'll say, to the left of the car and then how far to the rear - so I can get some idea of your position?
Mr. MARTIN. I would say that my motor was 5-foot to the left and approximately 6- to 8-foot to the rear.
Mr. BALL. Of the President's car?
Mr. MARTIN. Of the President's car.
Mr. BALL. Were you anywhere near the front end of the Secret Service car?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. The car the Secret Service men were in?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; we were alongside the front end of their car, because one of the agents got off of the car after the first shot. The best I can remember - I was fairly close to him - he was the person riding on the fender of the car and the first agent from the front of the car, and I was fairly close to him when be jumped off of the car.
Mr. BALL. Now, where was the motorcycle driven by Mr. Hargis, with reference to your right or to your left?
Mr. MARTIN. He was to my right when we made the turn on Houston Street.
Mr. BALL. At the time you heard this shot, where was he?
Mr. MARTIN. I presume he was still to my right. I don't recall seeing him after the shots.
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Mr. BALL. Was there any breeze that day?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; there was.
Mr. BALL. From what direction?
Mr. MARTIN. I believe it was blowing out of the southwest at that particular location. It seemed like we were going to turn into the wind as we turned off of Houston onto Elm.
Mr. BALL. The wind was in your face?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; the best I can recall.
Mr. BALL. Now, afterward, did the motorcade pick up speed then?
Mr. MARTIN. After we turned onto Houston?
Mr. BALL. No; after the shots?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes - after the shots we picked up speed.
Mr. BALL. Did you go on to Parkland?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; I did. I rode just part of the time alongside of the President's car. At times we were forced to the rear because of the pedestrians standing out on Stemmons and there just wasn't enough room to ride in there.
Mr. BALL. Could you see the President?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I couldn't see him - immediately after the first shot I saw him and after that I couldn't see him.
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Mr. BALL. And did you see the Governor at all?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir. I didn't pay any attention to the Governor.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you got to Parkland Hospital, what did you do?
Mr. MARTIN. We pulled into the emergency entrance to Parkland Hospital. The traffic had already begun to stack up and the officers ahead of the motorcade went on down into the exit and I stopped off at the first turn into the exit about 50 or 60 yards from the entrance to the emergency and began to cut traffic so they wouldn't block the roadway down into the emergency and then we had to park cars - just a lot of people got out of their cars and it was all blocked up and we had to park cars and just generally work traffic around there.
Mr. BALL. You had a white helmet on?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you notice any stains on your helmet?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; during the process of working traffic there, I noticed that there were blood stains on the windshield on my motor and then I pulled off my helmet and I noticed there were blood stains on the left side of my helmet.
Mr. BALL. To give a more accurate description of the left side, could you tell us about where it started with reference to the forehead?
Mr. MARTIN. It was just to the left - of what would be the center of my forehead - approximately halfway, about a quarter of the helmet had spots of blood on it.
Mr. BALL. And were there any other spots of any other material on the helmet there besides blood?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir; there was other matter that looked like pieces of flesh.
Mr. BALL. What about your uniform?
Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and matter on my left shoulder of my uniform.
Mr. BALL. You pointed to a place in front of your shoulder, about the clavicle region?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Is that about where it was?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. On the front of your uniform and not on the side?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. That would be left, was it?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes; on the left side.
Mr. BALL. And just below the level of the shoulder?

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And what spots were there?
Mr. MARTIN. They were blood spots and other matter.
Mr. BALL. And what did you notice on your windshield?
Mr. MARTIN. There was blood and other matter on my windshield and also on the motor.
Mr. BALL. Was the blood noticeable - were there large splotches?
Mr. MARTIN. No; they weren't large splotches, they were small - It was not very noticeable unless you looked at it.
Mr. BALL. Was the discoloration on your helmet noticeable?
Mr. MARTIN. Not too much - no -as a matter of fact, there were other people around there and two more officers there and they never noticed it.
Mr. BALL. At that time were you with Mr. Hargis?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I don't believe that he went to the hospital with us. I believe he stopped there at the scene of the shooting.
Mr. BALL. And did you ever see his helmet or his uniform or the windshield of his motorcycle?
Mr. MARTIN. No, sir - I never recall seeing him again until the next day.
Mr. BALL. Now, was this blood on the outside or the inside of your windshield?
Mr. MARTIN. It was on the outside of my windshield.
Mr. BALL. Was it on the right or left side?
Mr. MARTIN. It was on the outside of my windshield.
Mr. BALL. And what about the fender of the motorcycle?

JFK Assassination Forum

Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« on: May 02, 2022, 03:10:05 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2022, 03:43:30 AM »
The head shot came from behind.

Kennedy's head independently moves forward and a spray of blood brain and skull is clearly moving forward and away from Oswald in the Texas School Book Depository.



JohnM

Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 05:17:20 AM »
Hi John, President Kennedy's head does go forward because the limousine almost came to a stop. However, Officers Hargis and Martin were hit with blood and brain matter when the wind was blowing it away from them. Had a shot come from the rear. They would not have gotten hit by anything from the President's head. Sincerely yours, Michael

In this Muchmore frame the southwest wind blows the overcoats of Mary Moorman, Jean Hill, and the Babushka lady out to the north east as Officer Hargis covers the right half of Officer Martin who is at the south edge of Elm Street.
 

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2022, 05:17:20 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 12:28:24 PM »
Hi John, President Kennedy's head does go forward because the limousine almost came to a stop. However, Officers Hargis and Martin were hit with blood and brain matter when the wind was blowing it away from them. Had a shot come from the rear. They would not have gotten hit by anything from the President's head. Sincerely yours, Michael

In this Muchmore frame the southwest wind blows the overcoats of Mary Moorman, Jean Hill, and the Babushka lady out to the north east as Officer Hargis covers the right half of Officer Martin who is at the south edge of Elm Street.

"President Kennedy's head does go forward because the limousine almost came to a stop."



JFK's head is thrust forward at the moment of impact from the head shot.
You seem to be of the opinion that it is just a coincidence that his head moves forward at this moment beause the real reason it moved forward was the slowing down of the limo and not that JFK is shot in the head.
The largest problem you have with this approach is that you end up arguing that, even though JFK was shot from the front which should have rocked his head backwards at the moment of impact, the force of the limo slowing down was so great that it outweighed the force of a bullet entering his head from the front.
For me this is very unrealistic. It seems very clear from the gif John posted JFK's head is thrust forward by the head shot meaning it came from behind.

You also state that the wind was blowing away from Hargis and Martin and use the way the overcoats of Hill and Moorman to demonstrate this. However, it looks to me that the overcoats of Hill and Moorman show the wind was blowing towards Hargis and Martin.
If the wind was blowing away from them the overcoats of Hill and Moorman would blown the other way.



Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 05:44:14 PM »
Hi Dan, To me the limousine slows down; the President's head goes forward and meets the shot from the front. There is an explosion and an immediate force of the bullet driving the President back and to the left. The wind is definitely blowing from left to right, from the southwest to the northeast. It is blowing any blood and brain matter away from Officers Hargis and Martin not towards them! Thank you for your input! Sincerely yours, Michael

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 05:44:14 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 10:47:03 PM »
Hi Dan, To me the limousine slows down; the President's head goes forward and meets the shot from the front. There is an explosion and an immediate force of the bullet driving the President back and to the left. The wind is definitely blowing from left to right, from the southwest to the northeast. It is blowing any blood and brain matter away from Officers Hargis and Martin not towards them! Thank you for your input! Sincerely yours, Michael

In the gif John posted only JFK's head moves forward. No-one elses. This proves it's not the deceleration of the limo causing his head to move forward as everyone elses head would move in the same direction as they are all in the same limo and subject to the same forces.
The only force being applied to JFK's head, and no-one elses, is the bullet passing through his head. The movement of his head forward is proof the shot enters his head from behind.


Offline Michael Welch

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2022, 12:06:09 AM »
Hi Dan, If the deceleration of the limo did not cause it, then Jackie pushing down on his left arm did. JFK is the only unconscious person in a back brace at the moment, and I am sure that allows him to fall forward more. Josiah Thompson used to believe that the shot came from behind and then from the front, but now he attributes the forward motion to motion blur. I do not. There was only the shot from the front!

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Re: Southwest Wind Confirms Shot From The Front On 11-22-63
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2022, 12:06:09 AM »