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Author Topic: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.  (Read 26569 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2022, 07:42:31 PM »
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JohnM

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The head-shot is filmed and can be examined in detail.
It is conclusive that there is no "blow-out" at the back of the head.
This cannot be denied.



A cursory examination of the above clip shows that it is the top of JFK's head that is blown off.
This is evidenced by the massive crater that appears in the top of his head after the impact.
The large red mass of flesh that appears on the side of his head is the inside of his scalp which is torn near the crown of his head and blown over to the side.
A close examination of the clip above reveals this motion of the scalp at the crown of his head being blown over to the side.

The evidence of the wound demonstrated in the above clip is in perfect accordance with this Gif of JFK's head wound:



With this film/photographic evidence in mind, how is it possible to explain the copious amounts of eye-witness testimony describing a gaping wound only at the back of the head and nowhere else?

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2022, 07:42:31 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2022, 03:35:56 PM »
BS: alert!

What an insightful response to the evidence and arguments presented, demonstrating the film evidence of the head wound in the Z-film verifies the autopsy photos posted and vice versa.
A really inspiring response from someone who clearly wants to learn what actually happened that day and who is happy to consider evidence that might inform their opinion regarding the assassination of JFK.
A lesson to us all.

Further evidence the top of JFK's head was blown off is found in the Z-film.
At the moment of impact two powerful "jets" of, what I assume are skull and brain tissue can be clearly seen in the film. The main "jet" is picked out by the red arrow, the lesser "jet" by the yellow arrow:



In the frame below, the yellow line represents the line running through the top of his head. This is my own rough estimation and is made to give a general idea of the direction of the "Jets" (marked in red). There can be little doubt these powerful "jets" of skull/brain material are travelling in a straight line from the top of JFK's head. There is nothing even remotely similar exiting the back of his head.



The small fraction of one second this frame represents gives an idea of the speed and power of these "jets" exiting the top of JFK's head.

There is a weird moment in the video posted in the OP of the Jenkins interview (around thirty minute mark). At one point Jenkins describes the injury he sees to the skull:
With a model skull in his hand he places the position of the injury towards the back of the skull, right next to the occipital bone:

"The wound was here, approximately where my finger is [he places his finger on the back right of the skull, next to the occipital bone]...and it extended down here. It was about three and a half inches long...about two inches wide. That was where the missing bone was and the missing tissue was."


Here he is describing the classic "blow-out" injury to the back of the skull. A defined hole at the back of the skull. However, he then goes on to say:

"Remember, all of this portion [of the skull] in this area was fractured to the saggital suture[he indicates nearly the whole right side/top of the skull]...but it wasn't gone, it was still being kept intact by the scalp. The scalp had rents and tears in it [he indicates a line running along the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...it seemed like some of those tears in the scalp had been surgically connected, little connections to follow the fracture line in here [again he indicates the length of the saggital suture on the crown of the skull]...
When Dr. Humes took the wrappings off the head, there was a secondary wrapping on it that I think was a towel...as he was taking it off this area kind of gapped open [he indicates that the whole top right side of the skull from the saggital suture downwards opened up] but as soon as we separated it from the towel it went back together."


Here, he is clearly describing the injury we can see occur in the Z-film. At the moment of impact the majority of the top right side of JFK
s scalp is blown to the side and is seen as a large mass of red flesh hanging by the side of his head. This is the exposed inside of JFK's scalp. It is also the injury seen in the autopsy Gif posted by John.
Jenkins goes on to confirm this:

"Now, that's significant for the fact is you could actually...lay this skull open, you could actually take your hands and separate it [he makes a motion with his hand to indicate the side of the skull could be opened up like a small, hinged door]. So, that would have given you access to the brain."

There can be no doubt that Jenkins is describing a massive wound to the whole top right side of JFK's skull and not just the defined area of the "blow-out" hole. What is weird is that he doesn't relate this massive injury to the headshot, he seems to believe that this was a procedure that was carried out before JFK's body reached Bethesda.
The Z-film shows he is wrong to believe this and that the large "hinged flap" of scalp/fractured skull was a direct result of the headshot.
So, Jenkins does see the massive skull wound that we see in the autopsy Gif but he doesn't recognise it for what it is.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 03:40:28 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2022, 04:20:53 PM »

There can be no doubt that Jenkins is describing a massive wound to the whole top right side of JFK's skull and not just the defined area of the "blow-out" hole. What is weird is that he doesn't relate this massive injury to the headshot, he seems to believe that this was a procedure that was carried out before JFK's body reached Bethesda.
The Z-film shows he is wrong to believe this and that the large "hinged flap" of scalp/fractured skull was a direct result of the headshot.
So, Jenkins does see the massive skull wound that we see in the autopsy Gif but he doesn't recognise it for what it is.


Or he did see it for what it is; a blow out to the back of the head (where a part of the skull was missing) and an artificial enlargement of the wound and you are simply misinterpreting the Z film.


With this film/photographic evidence in mind, how is it possible to explain the copious amounts of eye-witness testimony describing a gaping wound only at the back of the head and nowhere else?

Why don't you try to answer your own question? Were all these people, who saw the head wound up close, wrong?

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2022, 04:20:53 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2022, 04:40:42 PM »
Or he did see it for what it is; a blow out to the back of the head (where a part of the skull was missing) and an artificial enlargement of the wound and you are simply misinterpreting the Z film.

In what way, specifically, am I misinterpreting the Z-film?
The massive crater in the top of JFK's skull is obvious in the film but maybe you have a different interpretation of that.
The "jets" flying up from the top of JFKs head are on the film or is there something I'm missing.
The massive red flap of scalp can hardly be missed but maybe you have a better idea than me what it is.
The injury shown in the Z-film is corroborated by the autopsy Gif John posted.
It is the same injury Jenkins is describing, this also confirms the autopsy Gif which, in turn, corroborates the Z-film.

Rather than some flaky suggestion that my interpretation is wrong, let's have some specifics.
Give us an alternative interpretation.

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Why don't you try to answer your own question? Were all these people, who saw the head wound up close, wrong?

Was Jenkins wrong?
He describes in detail the massive injury to the top right side of JFK's skull.
He describes perfectly how the whole side of JFK's skull came away, exposing the brain.
So that injury really existed, Jenkins describes it in detail. The autopsy pics show it. The Z-film shows it.
How much more evidence do you need?
What would convince you?
Can you be convinced, regardless how much evidence is presented?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 04:43:38 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2022, 05:34:33 PM »

In what way, specifically, am I misinterpreting the Z-film?
The massive crater in the top of JFK's skull is obvious in the film but maybe you have a different interpretation of that.
The "jets" flying up from the top of JFKs head are on the film or is there something I'm missing.
The massive red flap of scalp can hardly be missed but maybe you have a better idea than me what it is.
The injury shown in the Z-film is corroborated by the autopsy Gif John posted.
It is the same injury Jenkins is describing, this also confirms the autopsy Gif which, in turn, corroborates the Z-film.

Rather than some flaky suggestion that my interpretation is wrong, let's have some specifics.
Give us an alternative interpretation.


Just repeating your conclusions doesn't make them correct. I did not say that your interpretation is wrong, just that it could be. Jenkins, who actually saw the wound up close, might have had a far better view than you possibly could have had from a video. You seem to rule out that possibility. Your apparant belief that you somehow have the superior knowledge is astounding, but hardly convincing.

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Was Jenkins wrong?
He describes in detail the massive injury to the top right side of JFK's skull.
He describes perfectly how the whole side of JFK's skull came away, exposing the brain.
So that injury really existed, Jenkins describes it in detail. The autopsy pics show it. The Z-film shows it.

Well, let's see. Jenkins clearly shows us in the video, by using a skull, where the actual blast out wound was. That description is the same as that of O'Connor, Robinson, Custer, Van Hoessen and most of the Parkland ER staff that saw the head wound. Jenkins also explains how the larger wound was, in his opinion, the result of an artificial enlargement. FBI agents Sibert and O'Neill were present when the possibility of "surgery to the head" was being discussed in the autopsy room. They confirm it in their report.

So, it's not really a matter of Jenkins being wrong or not. The question - which you asked yourself but did not answer - is; are all these people wrong? Were Sibert and O'Neill (who Specter declined to call to testify, after an initial conversation) wrong and did they hear something that was never discussed?

Earlier in the thread, John Mytton, by quoting from David von Pein, tried to present Paul O'Connor as not credible. You are now singling out Jenkins, but neither you or Mytton have ever addressed the combined testimony of all the witnesses who disagree with the autopsy findings. Why is that?

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How much more evidence do you need?
What would convince you?
Can you be convinced, regardless how much evidence is presented?

Evidence, which authenticity is called into question by the testimony of a substantial number of people, who all saw the actual wound, is hardly persuasive evidence. Neither is your interpretation of the Z film.

Several people, including Jenkins and Custer have expressed doubt about the authenticity of the autopsy photos, of which the one below is one.



The reason I find this picture highly questionable is the lack of a hole where the part of the skull was that was blown out and later found at Dealey Plaza. Can you explain this?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 06:19:24 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2022, 05:34:33 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2022, 07:05:29 PM »
Just repeating your conclusions doesn't make them correct.

You clearly don't understand the difference between an "observation" and a "conclusion".
The difference between the two is important.

"The massive crater in the top of JFK's skull is obvious in the film but maybe you have a different interpretation of that."

In the clip below focus on the top of JFK's head before the impact. Focus on the shape of it.
Immediately after the impact the large flap of scalp, described by Jenkins, appears at the side of his head.
As his head moves forward a massive crater is apparent at the top of his head.



This is an extreme close up of JFK before the headshot. Note the shape of the top of his head:



This is an extreme close up of JFK after the headshot. Note the shape of the top of his head:



The difference is truly dramatic. There is a massive crater where the top of his head once was.
This is not a conclusion - it's an observation.

"The "jets" flying up from the top of JFKs head are on the film or is there something I'm missing."

At the moment of impact, two "jets" of skull/brain matter are fired high in the sky at tremendous speed. It is well known pieces of his skull were found in various locations. These two "jets" are shown clearly on the Z-film and are coming from the top of his head, confirming the pieces of skull were blown upwards and not backwards. The main "jet" is picked out by the red arrow, the lesser "jet" by the yellow arrow:



In the frame below, the yellow line represents the line running through the top of his head. This is my own rough estimation and is made to give a general idea of the direction of the "Jets" (marked in red). There can be little doubt these powerful "jets" of skull/brain material are travelling in a straight line from the top of JFK's head. There is nothing even remotely similar exiting the back of his head.



This is not a conclusion - it is an observation.

"The massive red flap of scalp can hardly be missed but maybe you have a better idea than me what it is."

In his interview, Jenkins describes the large head wound as scalp and skull opening away from the side of JFK's head. The impression he gives is of a large, hinged flap of scalp that could hang down by the right side of the head. This large flap of scalp is clearly visible in the Z-film hanging down by the side of JFK's head.
In the clip below pay particular attention to the large, pendulous strip of scalp that seems to sway forwards:



This large portion of scalp is picked out by the yellow arrow in the frame below:



This is not a conclusion - it is an observation.

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I did not say that your interpretation is wrong, just that it could be.

But you don't provide any example of how it might be wrong.
You offer no analysis of the evidence and the arguments presented.
You just hide behind snide suggestions that my interpretation could be wrong or that it isn't persuasive
But what about it isn't persuasive?
What are the weaknesses of the arguments I'm presenting?
How about getting involved rather than just sniping from the sidelines.

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Jenkins, who actually saw the wound up close, might have had a far better view than you possibly could have had from a video. You seem to rule out that possibility.

Where do I rule out that possibility or is this just more snide  BS: [this is actually a rhetorical question as the answer is obvious]

Quote
Well, let's see. Jenkins clearly shows us in the video, by using a skull, where the actual blast out wound was. That description is the same as that of O'Connor, Robinson, Custer and most of the Parkland ER staff that saw the head wound. Jenkins also explains how the larger wound was, in his opinion, the result of an artificial enlargement. FBI agents Sibert and O'Neill were present when the possibility of "surgery to the head" was being discussed in the autopsy room. They confirm it in their report.

So, it's not really a matter of Jenkins being wrong or not. The question - which you asked yourself but did not answer - is; are all these people wrong? Were Sibert and O'Neill (who Specter declined to call to testify, after an initial conversation) wrong and did they hear something that was never discussed?

Jenkins describes in detail the large injury to JFK's skull. He explains that the majority of the top right side of JFK's skull and scalp came away like a large flap that could be closed up again and that exposed the brain. it is described as s separate injury from the initial "blow-out" hole he describes at the back of the skull.
The large injury he describes is confirmed by the autopsy Gif below:



In his interview. Jenkins makes an interesting point:

"When Dr. Humes took the wrappings off the head, there was a secondary wrapping on it that I think was a towel...as he was taking it off this area kind of gapped open [he indicates that the whole top right side of the skull from the saggital suture downwards opened up] but as soon as we separated it from the towel it went back together."

This large flap could be put back in place.
Anyone who saw JFK's head while it was in this condition would have no reason to suspect the full extent of the damage to his head.
The point, however, is that, regardless of his own opinion about it, Jenkins describes a massive injury to the side of JFK's skull that was like a flap that could be opened up.
In the Z-film we see a massive crater appear in the top of JFK's head after impact. This crater represents an absence of skull and scalp in that area. Some of the missing skull has been blown into the air [the "jets"] but a lot of it is still attached to the inside of the scalp [as described by Jenkins] which is hanging down by the side of JFK's head.

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Evidence, which authenticity is called into question by the testimony of a substantial number of people, who all saw the actual wound, is hardly persuasive evidence. Neither is your interpretation of the Z film.

Film evidence of the head wound happening is "hardly persuasive"??
Jenkin's detailed description of the head wound is "hardly persuasive"??

The authenticity of what evidence is called into question?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2022, 07:59:54 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2022, 07:16:45 PM »

billchapman

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2022, 07:48:19 PM »
We can all see from the Z film that the kill shot came from either the front or the side.

No, you can't.

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We also have seen compelling evidence from researchers like Thompson that there were likely 2 shots to the head within a second of each other, one being the kill shot.

The majority opinion is that there was one shot to the head.

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So what does the exact location of the kill shot, whether top of head or closer to his right temple do to disprove any of this?

The two arguments derived from the head-shot that place a gunman to the front and right are the "blow-out" hole at the back of JFK's head and the "back and to the left" motion.

The Z-film shows there is no blow-out at the back of the head and strongly suggests that the "back and to the left" motion was caused by a shot from behind.
Understanding the dynamics of the headshot is key to understanding what can and cannot be assumed about potential sniper positions.

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Re: Interesting video of Dr Jenkins who was at the autopsy of JFK.
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2022, 07:48:19 PM »