Geneva Hine

[Jerry Freeman]

What are you trying to insinuate? That the only people who ran and got down on Elm Street were west of the southeast corner of the TSBD? And that none of the people on Elm Street that were in her view from the east window of her office ran or got down on the sidewalks? 

I am not insinuating anything. No one fell down or lay on the sidewalk at the intersection.

I didn't say that Hine used the word south. That was my wording.

Right. In order for Ms Hine to have viewed that intersection from that east... facing Houston window ...she would have to have leaned as far out of that window as she possibly could...a silly as hell notion. Was she incapable of walking around a desk to view the motorcade going down Elm?

Ms Hine: I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know, 

You assume that she had an accurate grasp of direction. Joe Ball failed to correct this.
Sure-- shots could have been fired right after the limo turn.
 I have considered that the president was shot in the back...in the throat....and twice in the head...there was a missed shot and the governor was shot possibly twice. That is just far too much shooting for 1 lone assassin and 3 bullets.

[Charles Collins]

I am not insinuating anything. No one fell down or lay on the sidewalk at the intersection.Right. In order for Ms Hine to have viewed that intersection from that east... facing Houston window ...she would have to have leaned as far out of that window as she possibly could...a silly as hell notion. Was she incapable of walking around a desk to view the motorcade going down Elm?You assume that she had an accurate grasp of direction. Joe Ball failed to correct this.
Sure-- shots could have been fired right after the limo turn.
 I have considered that the president was shot in the back...in the throat....and twice in the head...there was a missed shot and the governor was shot possibly twice. That is just far too much shooting for 1 lone assassin and 3 bullets.

I am not insinuating anything. No one fell down or lay on the sidewalk at the intersection.

Tina Towner on page 8 of her book: "I heard three gunshots, and sometime between the first and last, an unknown man grabbed my arm and pulled me to the ground. He held onto my arm until he thought it was safe to get up."

Amos Euins said he got down behind a concrete structure near his position.

I am reasonably sure that there were many others who either got down or ran or both.



In order for Ms Hine to have viewed that intersection from that east... facing Houston window ...she would have to have leaned as far out of that window as she possibly could...a silly as hell notion.

Actually, she could view most of the intersection without leaning out the window at all. And if she had just heard shots and wanted to see as far west as the corner of the building would allow, sticking her head out the window wouldn't have been silly at all.


 Was she incapable of walking around a desk to view the motorcade going down Elm?


There were no windows in her office that overlooked Elm Street to the west of the southeast corner of the building. All five of the sets of 2 windows faced east. She tried to get in the offices of two other companies who had windows overlooking Elm Street. But was not able to get into either one of those offices.


You assume that she had an accurate grasp of direction. Joe Ball failed to correct this.


She had an accurate grasp of direction. And she demonstrated it by telling us she went to one of the east facing windows and had a view of Houston Street and Elm Street going east. It is you who assumed (wrongly) that she didn't have an accurate grasp of direction. Joe Ball didn't need to correct this.


Sure-- shots could have been fired right after the limo turn.
 I have considered that the president was shot in the back...in the throat....and twice in the head...there was a missed shot and the governor was shot possibly twice. That is just far too much shooting for 1 lone assassin and 3 bullets.


I'm not sure what you are trying to say with all of that. So I won't try to respond.

[Jerry Freeman]

The concrete wall that Euins hid behind. Impossible to see from a 2nd fl. window on the east side of the TSBD.
This shot is from the 'snipers nest' 6th fl. southeast side---


If someone had been out on the fire escape they could see the intersection but that is it.


No one could see a car from the east side after turning from Houston to Elm .....


The cop is standing in the middle of the intersection..photo taken from the opposite corner----
 



A view actually looking east on Elm that would have shown nothing eventful---

 quote Freeman
 

I have considered that the president was shot in the back...in the throat....and twice in the head...there was a missed shot and the governor was shot possibly twice. That is just far too much shooting for 1 lone assassin and 3 bullets.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with all of that. So I won't try to respond.

You know what I am saying.

[Charles Collins]

The concrete wall that Euins hid behind. Impossible to see from a 2nd fl. window on the east side of the TSBD.
This shot is from the 'snipers nest' 6th fl. southeast side---


If someone had been out on the fire escape they could see the intersection but that is it.


No one could see a car from the east side after turning from Houston to Elm .....


The cop is standing in the middle of the intersection..photo taken from the opposite corner----
 



A view actually looking east on Elm that would have shown nothing eventful---



I'm not sure what you are trying to say with all of that. So I won't try to respond.
You know what I am saying.

The concrete wall that Euins hid behind. Impossible to see from a 2nd fl. window on the east side of the TSBD.


The examples I used were in response to your claim that no one at that intersection fell or ran. And they could have been seen if Hine had her head out the window. Some people ran away, and some people ran towards the grassy knoll. There is no doubt that Hine could have seen what she said she saw from the east facing window that she said she saw it from.


This shot is from the 'snipers nest' 6th fl. southeast side---


Yes, and if Hine had her head out the east window, she could have seen everything in that photo which is east of the reflecting pool (about 44%). Just looking from inside the window, it would be well over half the intersection. Here are a couple of images from my 3-D computer model for demonstration:

This is from inside the window. The figure is standing at the centerline of Houston Street between the southwestern and southeastern corners of the intersection.




This image is from a position just outside the window (as her head would be if she stuck it out the window). The figure half hidden by the window frame/wall is in the position where Tina Towner was filming. There is a figure in the far distance just to camera left of Tina's position, that is Hughes' filming position at the Main Street intersection. I didn't yet have a figure on the centerline of Houston Street in this image. But there are two more fitures across Houston Street. One of them is actually on the south side of Elm Street as it goes east from the intersection. The other figure closer to the Tina Towner position is where another photographer took a photo. The shadows look odd because the actual ground is at the level where the limo was at Z313. This is one of the limitations of the free program I am using.



No one could see a car from the east side after turning from Houston to Elm .....

Once it got to a point that is west of the southeast corner of the TSBD, that would be the case.


The cop is standing in the middle of the intersection..photo taken from the opposite corner----

Yes, and both the cop and the camera can see the east window that Hine said she looked out of. So, she could also see them.


A view actually looking east on Elm that would have shown nothing eventful---


Sorry, that is looking west. They even point out the TSBD for you.

[Richard Smith]

So she just made it up? And I saw no word 'immediately' in that testimony. You are just inventing stuff again.
   Sez you ... how would you know? And "lastly"? I would hope so but doubt it.
Also Hine did not state "for a few seconds" another Smith invention. Truly and the cop was waiting for the elevators...they weren't moving.   It has been reported long ago that the Hertz sign was on a separate breaker in a different area. Try and catch up.

What are you babbling about?  No one suggested she made anything up.  You misconstrued what she is saying.  It's not that the power and phones were out but that no incoming calls were coming in which allowed her to go to the window to view the motorcade ("no one was calling").  Where is your proof that the sign was on a "separate breaker in a "different area"?  And the elevators were operational because Truly and Baker take them from the 5th floor to the 7th floor.  LOL.  And Hine walks down the hall where she encounters someone on the phone!  But spin us a tale and give us the conspiracy related purpose to turn the power and phones off just for a moment at the time of the motorcade.  What would that achieve?  It's laughable.

Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office.


Mr. BALL. What did you do then?
Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out.
Mr. BALL. On to Elm?
Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass.
Mr. BALL. I See.
Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door.

[James Hackerott]

I made a frame stack of the limo’s turn onto Elm. An enhancement of that stack shows pretty clear to me that no head was sticking out the window at that time.


The frame from the Secret Service’s reenactment film does show the beginning of the turn would be visible from her 2’nd floor window, just south of the fire escape.

[Charles Collins]

I made a frame stack of the limo’s turn onto Elm. An enhancement of that stack shows pretty clear to me that no head was sticking out the window at that time.


The frame from the Secret Service’s reenactment film does show the beginning of the turn would be visible from her 2’nd floor window, just south of the fire escape.

Great work (as usual) James, thanks! We all know that sometimes our imaginations can influence what we think we see in some of the photos. But I do see a dark area right where Geneva Hines would need to be if she were looking out the bottom half of the window with her head stuck out. Those windows are so low that she would need to be squatted down or on her knees. I am going to place a figure there and view it from Hughes’ viewpoint on my model to see what it should look like in proportion to everything else.

[Charles Collins]

Okay, the figure in my model does appear to be only slightly larger than the dark spot in the Hughes film enhancement that James created. But there just isn’t enough detail in the enhancement to make a conclusive statement one way or another.

James, is that the limo making the turn that we see blurred in your enhancement?