The Ukraine and U. S. Elections


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Offline Rick Plant

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2022, 10:57:05 PM »
Your moronic analysis of the situation in Ukraine is exactly why Americans should stay the hell out of European affairs. It has to be duplicitous partisan politics in your case to not acknowledge the last time Putin invaded Ukraine was on Obama's term as president.You're either unaware of this fact or stupidly up to your neck of brainwashing bias. Meanwhile, in reality, the truth is: Donetsk and Crimea were taken control of by Putin because USA had a completely ineffectual piss poor leader at the time. And guess what, it's happening again - now on Biden's spombleprofglidnoctobunsshow.

How does this happen during both Biden and Obama's terms in power? Why do they share the same commonality when it comes to letting Putin take control of Ukraine? Very interesting question. And I'd like an answer to this mystifying inability of both Biden and Obama to do as they say when it comes to preventing Putin terrorizing Europe. Seems that these democrat scumbags always point the finger at Russia and say Putin is a tyrant. But they also appear to let the man do just exactly as he pleases.

Not that for one moment I think you have a clue about anything happening in Ukraine. You still think the root of all USA's problems are Donald Trump. Clown world!

Moronic analysis? Your post is nothing but a personal attack and that's pathetic.

Seems like you got triggered over the facts.

Putin is a tyrant. What else would you call someone who illegally invades another country and kills his political opponents?   

Putin wanted a stooge like Trump in power to give him whatever he wanted. Stooge Trump did exactly that by taking the U.S. out of important treaties and weakening NATO. And worst of all, Criminal Donald gave legitimacy to a dictator.     

How does it.happen? Sabotage, that's how it happens. Putin's goal is to end democracy in the West and to have a puppet as President of the United States. He had one for 4 years in Criminal Donald who let Putin do whatever he wanted to do. And he wants one again, which is why he's starting up another invasion thinking it will help his endeavor. Then we have a right wing media pushing your same Russian propaganda brainwashing the cult as they praise dictator Putin.

Republicans used to be against the USSR following Ronnie Reagan's lead of being patriotic Americans. Now the GOP puts on their red commie hats slobbering over a Russian dictator dreaming for an authoritarian U.S. government. Ronnie is rolling over in his grave.       
« Last Edit: February 18, 2022, 11:51:14 PM by Rick Plant »

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2022, 10:57:05 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2022, 11:21:52 PM »
We should send Hunter over to sort it out since he is apparently an expert on Ukraine, and already on their payroll.  The "big guy" is also getting ten percent.  Time for them to earn their Ukrainian paychecks.

Ah, more debunked Russian propaganda. Thumb1:

Online Robert Reeves

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2022, 01:59:43 PM »
Moronic analysis? Your post is nothing but a personal attack and that's pathetic.

Seems like you got triggered over the facts.

Putin is a tyrant. What else would you call someone who illegally invades another country and kills his political opponents?   

Putin wanted a stooge like Trump in power to give him whatever he wanted. Stooge Trump did exactly that by taking the U.S. out of important treaties and weakening NATO. And worst of all, Criminal Donald gave legitimacy to a dictator.     

How does it.happen? Sabotage, that's how it happens. Putin's goal is to end democracy in the West and to have a puppet as President of the United States. He had one for 4 years in Criminal Donald who let Putin do whatever he wanted to do. And he wants one again, which is why he's starting up another invasion thinking it will help his endeavor. Then we have a right wing media pushing your same Russian propaganda brainwashing the cult as they praise dictator Putin.

Republicans used to be against the USSR following Ronnie Reagan's lead of being patriotic Americans. Now the GOP puts on their red commie hats slobbering over a Russian dictator dreaming for an authoritarian U.S. government. Ronnie is rolling over in his grave.     

Obviously it was a personal attack on your stupidity to suggest what happened in Ukraine has anything to do with Donald frigging Trump. The attack on Crimea and Donetsk by Russia took place in 2014. And this began much earlier in Ukraine when USA, under Obama's CIA, began meddling in Ukrainian political affairs. Remember all the wonderful American 'freedom' that was spreading in the middle east? Do you remember that? when Hillary Clinton was going around bragging on American tv how ''we came, we saw, he died'' when she and Obama whacked and began removing various anti-American leaders of nations. And those nations then fell into civil wars and many thousands of innocent people died. Many many millions of people, ordinary people, just wanting to be safe, they fled their homeland and flooded Europe with 'refugees'. 3 million from Syria, for instance. 1.5 million from Ukraine moved into Poland. These stupid meddling in other nations affairs don't impact Americans 5 thousand miles away from the consequences of your government actions.

And obviously this meddling in Ukraine was in response to Putin's also meddling with the election of Ukrainian leaders. He is by no means innocent. But USA's interference in Europe, and in particular with surrounding Russia with NATO, is simply to further your nations own strategic hold over vital resources/geographic importance. You OBVIOUSLY didn't even know that what happened in Ukraine has origins under Obama/Biden. If you knew you wouldn't have the stupidity to pass the blame off onto Trump? yet you speak like you even had a clue what happened there.

Rick Plant, you are a typical partisan brainwashed bot without any ability to reason and be truthful & think subjectively when it comes to subjects that have resulted in devastating lasting impacts on many many lives (around the world). So yes it does slightly irk me when I see Americans such as yourself using events thousands of miles away from your homeland for political points scoring. All for your 'party'. You actually think you are promoting 'your' preferred candidate.

I don't think you lot will ever 'get it' in USA until you are facing down your own destructive civil wars. These wars and meddling in other nations affairs that you guys use to justify your own importance to the world always have highly dangerous lingering blowback for the entire region. It's about time USA got out of Europe and stopped pushing wars onto other people. You are no longer a force for good in this world. After the last century fully played out USA is no longer owed any kudos for its legendary help in WW2.

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2022, 01:59:43 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2022, 02:27:42 PM »
Obviously it was a personal attack on your stupidity to suggest what happened in Ukraine has anything to do with Donald frigging Trump. The attack on Crimea and Donetsk by Russia took place in 2014. And this began much earlier in Ukraine when USA, under Obama's CIA, began meddling in Ukrainian political affairs. Remember all the wonderful American 'freedom' that was spreading in the middle east? Do you remember that? when Hillary Clinton was going around bragging on American tv how ''we came, we saw, he died'' when she and Obama whacked and began removing various anti-American leaders of nations. And those nations then fell into civil wars and many thousands of innocent people died. Many many millions of people, ordinary people, just wanting to be safe, they fled their homeland and flooded Europe with 'refugees'. 3 million from Syria, for instance. 1.5 million from Ukraine moved into Poland. These stupid meddling in other nations affairs don't impact Americans 5 thousand miles away from the consequences of your government actions.

And obviously this meddling in Ukraine was in response to Putin's also meddling with the election of Ukrainian leaders. He is by no means innocent. But USA's interference in Europe, and in particular with surrounding Russia with NATO, is simply to further your nations own strategic hold over vital resources/geographic importance. You OBVIOUSLY didn't even know that what happened in Ukraine has origins under Obama/Biden. If you knew you wouldn't have the stupidity to pass the blame off onto Trump? yet you speak like you even had a clue what happened there.

Rick Plant, you are a typical partisan brainwashed bot without any ability to reason and be truthful & think subjectively when it comes to subjects that have resulted in devastating lasting impacts on many many lives (around the world). So yes it does slightly irk me when I see Americans such as yourself using events thousands of miles away from your homeland for political points scoring. All for your 'party'. You actually think you are promoting 'your' preferred candidate.

I don't think you lot will ever 'get it' in USA until you are facing down your own destructive civil wars. These wars and meddling in other nations affairs that you guys use to justify your own importance to the world always have highly dangerous lingering blowback for the entire region. It's about time USA got out of Europe and stopped pushing wars onto other people. You are no longer a force for good in this world. After the last century fully played out USA is no longer owed any kudos for its legendary help in WW2.

Once again: more propaganda, more personal attacks, and more false claims you made up about me.

Vladdy is starting this war on his own by invading Ukraine. The USA isn't pushing any wars.

You are terribly misinformed with your long winded rant.

Criminal Donald was a disaster, he allowed dictators like Vladdy and his pal Kimmy to become stronger due to Donnie being a starstruck sycophant. 

Criminal Donald rejected widely held US foreign policy views in order to appease his puppetmaster Putin. He refused to hold Putin accountable for his hacking of the 2016 election. And the worst offense of all, which proves how weak Criminal Donald is, he suggested that Russia can keep Crimea.

Criminal Donald slobbered over Putin and said he "did an amazing job of taking the mantle” when Russia annexed Crimea in 2014. Then during the 2016 presidential campaign, Donnie broke with US policy and suggested he was "OK if Russia kept the Ukrainian territory". He repeated a Kremlin talking point, saying, “The people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”

Then after that, the GOP changed their entire platform on Russia and became Putin friendly.

4 years of disaster and weakness with Criminal Donald got us where we are today.     

Online Robert Reeves

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2022, 08:33:36 PM »
If you continue to be so dumb, only going around chirping M$M headlines you've not actually researched yourself. Just making everyone maintain the status-quo of endless wars and nations you occupy. Then yes, you deserve being attacked for your stupidity.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2022, 11:07:50 PM by Robert Reeves »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2022, 09:11:43 PM »
No. The bad thing is that is Trump was still President, he would be well on the way to becoming President for Life. Making certain elections won’t put him out of office. Having his sons alternate with him every 8 years, and with each other after he is gone. There would be no getting rid of them. That’s the problem with continuing to supporting a man who wants to remain President regardless of the election result.

If ten years from now, the MAGA people start to think that maybe the Trumps aren’t that great, guess what? It’s too late. They have already abdicated their control of the government. Something that a free people must never do. Go ask the Germans how well that worked out for them when they abdicated their control in 1933.

I think Ukraine would be safer under Trump than anyone else. Not because of his strong stance against Russia, which he never demonstrated, but because Putin didn’t want to cause Trump any major problems and wants to cause as much trouble for Biden or anyone else who succeeds Trump, in order to help Trump in his quest to have him and his family control American permanently.

I greatly prefer Trump out of office because I value America remaining a democracy over Ukraine being given a chance to develop a democracy. But I would certainly prefer Ukraine to be given that chance. But it appears Putin is determined to not let that happen and he has the bigger army. The Soviet Union and not Russia has had the most powerful army in Europe since 1943. Trump, nor anyone else is going to change that. I expect bad news starting shortly after the close of the Olympics.

I think Putin (not “the Russians”, they no longer have control of their government) is primarily motivated by not allowing a democratic Ukraine. If this is allowed, and becomes prosperous, it could help cause the collapse of the Russian dictatorship, just as the prosperous Western Europe helped cause the collapse of the Soviet Union. But, yes, a secondary motive, no what he can to help Trump get back in power. That is highly desirable as well, for Putin.

It is absurd for many Republicans and commentators, like Tucker Carlson, to argue that Ukraine and NATO are the bad guys, Russia is the good. Yes, Reagan was right, the USSR and now Russia are the bad guys. There governments have always been so, except for a brief gap between the collapse of the Soviet Union and the election of Putin. They have become bad again ever since the Russian people decided it was best to abdicated control by electing Putin.

By the way, I take it that you still want Trump again as President. You are not concerned about the American people abdicating their control of the government, if they put back into power one who declares every election that goes against him a “fraud” and may have the power, in the future, to override that election. And any other election he loses. You fell no concern about this, correct? Or am I wrong about this.

You are suggesting that Trump, who is in his 70s, poses some lasting threat to become a dictator?  Last time I checked he wasn't in office but left of his own free will.  That is far out MSNBC tin foil hat stuff you are peddling.  I prefer a guy who get results over a senile, life-long establishment politician who has managed in one year to turn American into a disaster.  Crime, inflation, shortages, at least 2 million illegal aliens pouring over the border in an invasion that makes the situation in Europe child's play, and more virus cases and deaths with the vaccine widely available than before it was available.  Ultimately results matter.  If Biden had done his job rather than being a complete disaster, then you wouldn't have to worry about Trump ever again.  Trump is largely a product of the failures of the corrupt establishment politicians like Biden who have enriched themselves at the expense of the public for decades.   

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2022, 09:11:43 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2022, 11:14:49 PM »
You are suggesting that Trump, who is in his 70s, poses some lasting threat to become a dictator? Last time I checked he wasn't in office but left of his own free will.  That is far out MSNBC tin foil hat stuff you are peddling.  I prefer a guy who get results over a senile, life-long establishment politician who has managed in one year to turn American into a disaster.  Crime, inflation, shortages, at least 2 million illegal aliens pouring over the border in an invasion that makes the situation in Europe child's play, and more virus cases and deaths with the vaccine widely available than before it was available.  Ultimately results matter.  If Biden had done his job rather than being a complete disaster, then you wouldn't have to worry about Trump ever again.  Trump is largely a product of the failures of the corrupt establishment politicians like Biden who have enriched themselves at the expense of the public for decades.   

 :D :D :D

Criminal Donald tried to steal the 2020 election via a coup and violent insurrection. He wanted to be a tyrant. And of course you parrot the same debunked right wing talking points. The overwhelming majority of Americans have tuned it out. They are too busy shopping and taking advantage of the great economy that President Biden has created.         

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2022, 11:51:45 PM »
Vlad Putin wanted a compromised stooge and he got one with Criminal Donald. Thank God this loser is out of office and will never return again.   

The person to ‘weaken’ America: what the Kremlin papers said about Trump

Documents appear to show how Russian intelligence worked to install their preferred candidate as president
Papers appear to show Putin’s plot to put Trump in White House



Look at the fear in the eyes and on the face of Criminal Donald being controlled by his puppet master.

In January 2016, America was coming to terms with what had previously seemed incredible. Barring an unforeseen event, Donald J Trump was on course to become the Republican party’s presidential candidate. Some welcomed this giddy prospect, while others in the Republican establishment recoiled in horror.

The man himself oozed confidence. “I have a feeling it’s going to work out, actually,” he told his rival Ted Cruz, at a Fox News debate. By 22 January, the polls had Trump well ahead, as a snowstorm nudged towards Washington.

Trump’s astonishing and confounding rise had not gone unnoticed in Russia. Unbeknown to the US public, his personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, was in touch with the office of the Kremlin press secretary. Cohen had begged for help in building a luxury hotel in Moscow – a decades-long Trump dream.

Meanwhile, Trump had said flattering things about Vladimir Putin, a person talked about by some leading US politicians as a cold-eyed KGB killer. “Wouldn’t it be great if we got along with Russia,” Trump would muse.

That he was the Kremlin’s preferred candidate is not in doubt. What has been a source of endless conjecture is the lengths Russia was prepared to go to to help Trump win. The Guardian has spent months seeking to verify the authenticity of papers that may provide an answer to this question.

Our investigation has revealed that western intelligence agencies have known about the papers – and have been examining them – for some time.

Independent experts approached by the Guardian have also confirmed they are consistent with the Kremlin’s thinking and chain of command.

Their fascination in material that appears to have come from within the heart of the Kremlin is easy to understand.

The papers suggest that as Trump surged ahead, a group of analysts inside the Russian administration were putting the final touches on a secret paper.

The title of the document was bland enough: “Report on strengthening the state and stabilising the position of Russia under conditions of external economic constraint.”

Its contents were not.

The document describes how Putin’s expert department was urging a multi-layered plan to interfere in the race for the White House. The goal: to “destabilise” America.

One candidate above all might help bring this about, the experts confidently believed – the “mentally unstable”, impulsive” and “unbalanced” Trump.

This plan was presented as being entirely defensive. The Obama administration had inflicted damage on the Russian economy by imposing sanctions. Living standards were falling, regional elites were unhappy and the sugar rush from Putin’s 2014 annexation of Crimea had worn off, the report said. Potential domestic political dangers lay ahead.

The sensible course from Moscow’s perspective, it said, was to enact measures that would “pressure” America to ease off – by dropping anti-Russian sanctions, or softening them.

The paper seems to have set off a flurry of activity in the Kremlin.

The documents indicate that on 14 January Vladimir Symonenko, the expert department chief, shared a three-page summary.

“At the moment the Russian Federation finds itself in a predicament. American measures continue to be felt in all areas of public life,” it starts. Next, Putin ordered the head of his foreign policy directorate, Alexander Manzhosin, to arrange an urgent meeting of the national security council, Russia’s top decision-making body. At some point over the next few days Putin appears to have read the document himself.

By 22 January, other security council members had had a chance to digest its contents. The early part dealt with Russia’s economy. The secret American measures were contained in a special section beginning on page 14.

The report seemed to confirm what Trump would later deny: that Putin’s spy agencies had gathered compromising material on him, possibly stretching back to Soviet KGB times.

Trump’s personal flaws were so extensive – also featuring an “inferiority complex” – that he was the perfect person to feed divisions and to weaken America’s negotiating position.

The unflattering assessment of Trump’s personality was based on evidence, the paper said, derived from observation of his behaviour during trips to Russia.

Trump visited communist Moscow and Leningrad in summer 1987 following an invitation from the Soviet envoy in New York. Trump returned in the 1990s, and early 2000s, seeking business deals, and flew in for the 2013 Miss Universe beauty contest, when he stayed in Moscow’s Ritz-Carlton hotel. Putin’s FSB agency had spy cameras in guest rooms, and a full-time officer on the premises, the Senate intelligence committee later found.

The report appears to confirm Trump was being watched, though no dates or locations are given.“Considering certain events that took place during his stay on Russian Federation territory (Appendix 5 – personal characteristics Donald J Trump, paragraph 5), it is urgently necessary to use all means to promote his election to the post of President of the United States,” it says.

The allegation that the Russians had kompromat on Trump would haunt his four years in the White House. True or false, his flattering treatment of Putin was one riddle of his chaotic presidency.

The papers seen by the Guardian suggest that after the security council meeting Putin set up a special inter-departmental commission headed by his close ally Sergei Shoigu, Russia’s defence minister. Shoigu was in overall command of the operation to influence the 2016 US election. GRU military intelligence, SVR foreign intelligence and the FSB were all told to prepare immediate practical steps to help accomplish the report’s preferred scenario – a Trump victory.

This certainly came at a time of internal spy agency tensions.

The SVR’s then chief, Mikhail Fradkov, was regarded as a weak figure. In 2010, the FBI arrested 10 of Fradkov’s undercover sleeper agents in America. The scandal badly damaged his authority. The GRU and FSB harboured scarcely concealed ambitions to take over the SVR’s functions abroad. Meanwhile, the GRU’s director, Igor Sergun, died two weeks before the meeting, apparently while undercover in the Middle East.

By spring 2016, the commission chiefs appear to have overcome their institutional rivalry to work harmoniously together. A team of GRU cyber-hackers moved into an anonymous glass tower in north-west Moscow. They worked closely with GRU colleagues based in a downtown building.

The first phishing email was sent on 19 March to John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman.

More followed. As the report correctly envisaged, these stolen and dumped emails became a “media virus” – infecting and weakening the Democratic campaign, and reaching millions of American voters via Facebook and Twitter.

By autumn, President Obama was convinced Putin had personally approved the hacking operation, which Clinton believes cost her the presidency. In October 2016, Obama remonstrated with his Russian counterpart in a phone call, telling Putin his election meddling was “an act of war”. The 2019 report by special counsel Robert Mueller called the Kremlin’s operation “sweeping and systematic”. In 2020, the bipartisan Senate intelligence committee said it was “aggressive and multi-faceted”.

The committee detailed multiple interactions between individuals linked to the Russian government and Trump’s inner circle. The GRU spy Konstantin Kilimnik held clandestine meetings with Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort. Manafort supplied Kilimnik with private polling and other data. The pair communicated using encrypted messages and shared email drafts.

And what of the report’s claim that Putin would be able to exploit Trump’s weaknesses in “clandestine fashion” during bilateral discussions?

Something along these lines took place during their notorious 2018 summit in Helsinki. Asked at a joint press conference to condemn Kremlin hacking and dumping, Trump endorsed Putin’s assertion that Moscow had not interfered – a claim at odds with the findings of all 14 US intelligence agencies. After a backlash at home, and amid speculation the Russians were somehow blackmailing the president, Trump said he misspoke.

Putin has repeatedly denied claims he interferes in US politics. Western governments don’t believe him. According to US intelligence officials, Moscow sought to influence the 2020 election by spreading “misleading or unsubstantiated allegations” against Joe Biden. Last year, Russian state hackers penetrated numerous federal US institutions, in a massive cyber-attack.

Little is really known about how decision-making works at the top of the Kremlin. The apparent leaked papers seen by the Guardian appear to suggest the bureaucratic paper trail is more considerable than you might think. The security council – the Sovbez in Russian – has increasingly come to resemble the Politburo, the Soviet Union’s powerful executive committee. At the top is a small, like-minded group of individuals, led by a preeminent figure.

For the moment, Putin’s regime looks impregnable, despite mass street protests in January following the arrest and jailing of the opposition leader Alexei Navalny, poisoned in 2020 in a special FSB operation. As unrest grows, further leaks seem possible. The lesson comes from history. When the USSR collapsed 30 years ago, KGB files were opened and long-buried secrets fell out.

Trump did not initially respond to a request for comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/the-person-to-weaken-america-what-the-kremlin-papers-said-about-trump

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Re: The Ukraine and U. S. Elections
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2022, 11:51:45 PM »


 

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