Questions For Buell Wesley Frazier

[Richard Smith]

The Klein's documents confirm Oswald was sent a rifle with a specific serial number.

No they don't

Oswald's wife confirms he received a rifle in this timeframe.

No she didn't

He is pictured holding that rifle.

Wrong. He's pictured holding a rifle. The serial number of the rifle can not be read.

His prints are found on that rifle.

There is no certainty this is actually true. The FBI found no prints on the rifle when they examined it only hours after the crime

Marina confirms he stored that rifle in the Paine's garage.

No she didn't

That rifle is gone and can't be accounted for in any other manner except as the one found in the TSBD after the assassination.

There is no proof that the MC rifle found at the TSBD (or any other rifle for that matter) was ever stored in Ruth Paine's garage.

That rifle has the same serial numbers as the one sent to Oswald.

There is no evidence that a rifle was actually sent to Oswald. All you can say is that the rifle found at the TSBD has the same serial number as the handwritten number on Waldman 7, which is proof of absolutely nothing as the document can not be authenticated.

But even if you want to come to that conclusion, there is absolutely no doubt that the rifle found in the TSBD belonged to Oswald - regardless of what defense attorney narrative you wish to entertain about where he kept the rifle.

Oh there is doubt alright. Just not in your mind, but that's just your opinion and the bad news for you is that your opinion is frequently wrong and nothing more than a premature conclusion based on speculation.

Of all Martin's bizarre contrarian interpretations of the evidence, the most tortured is his desperate struggle against reality that Marina confirmed that Oswald stored a rifle in the Paine's garage.  She unambiguously confirms this fact in her testimony.  She responds to multiple questions about the "rifle" and confirms that she saw it in the blanket in the Paine's garage.  In response to a question about the rifle, she in one instance notes that it was made of "wood."  Which, of course, it was.  As a result, however, Martin dishonestly suggests there is doubt about what she saw.  Something made of wood.  It's laughable.  Of course, if there were any doubt about Marina's testimony confirming that Oswald kept his rifle in the Paine's garage (and there isn't), it goes out the window when she directs the DPD to the garage when they ask if Oswald owned a rifle expecting them to find it in the blanket.  Why would she do that unless she believed Oswald kept a rifle in the blanket?  Why would she come to that conclusion unless she had seen it there as her testimony confirmed?  She is surprised when they don't find the rifle in the blanket.  She hasn't changed her story about the rifle being in the Paine's garage in six decades but Martin dishonestly claims there is doubt as to her testimony on that matter.  Unreal.

[Martin Weidmann]

Of all Martin's bizarre contrarian interpretations of the evidence, the most tortured is his desperate struggle against reality that Marina confirmed that Oswald stored a rifle in the Paine's garage.  She unambiguously confirms this fact in her testimony.  She responds to multiple questions about the "rifle" and confirms that she saw it in the blanket in the Paine's garage.  In response to a question about the rifle, she in one instance notes that it was made of "wood."  Which, of course, it was.  As a result, however, Martin dishonestly suggests there is doubt about what she saw.  Something made of wood.  It's laughable.  Of course, if there were any doubt about Marina's testimony confirming that Oswald kept his rifle in the Paine's garage (and there isn't), it goes out the window when she directs the DPD to the garage when they ask if Oswald owned a rifle expecting them to find it in the blanket.  Why would she do that unless she believed Oswald kept a rifle in the blanket?  Why would she come to that conclusion unless she had seen it there as her testimony confirmed?  She is surprised when they don't find the rifle in the blanket.  She hasn't changed her story about the rifle being in the Paine's garage in six decades but Martin dishonestly claims there is doubt as to her testimony on that matter.  Unreal.

his desperate struggle against reality that Marina confirmed that Oswald stored a rifle in the Paine's garage.

Yes, she did, eventually, say that Oswald stored a rifle in Ruth Paine's garage, but that's not what you claimed earlier.

She responds to multiple questions about the "rifle" and confirms that she saw it in the blanket in the Paine's garage.

No she didn't. Stop playing games! Marina said she saw what she believed to be the wooden stock of a rifle. By the time she testified before the WC she had been through an horrific ordeal of numerous interrogations which made her believe that she had seen a rifle. However, on Friday evening, only hours after the assassination, Marina was shown the MC rifle found at the TSBD and she could not identify it.

As a result, however, Martin dishonestly suggests there is doubt about what she saw.

I never suggested anything of the kind. Keep your delusions to yourself

I just have one question, which you probably will not answer, but here it is anyway;

show me where Marina actually identified the MC rifle found at the TSBD as the one she saw in Ruth Paine's garage?

[Alan Ford]

Senator COOPER - Let me ask a question there. After the assassination, at anytime did you go into the garage and look to see if both of these packages (=curtain rods package + venetian blinds package, A.F.) were there?
Mrs. PAINE - A week and a half, or a week later.
Senator COOPER - At any time?
Mrs. PAINE - Did I, personally?
Senator COOPER - Have you seen these packages since the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE - It seems to me I recall seeing a package.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall opening it up and looking in carefully. I seem to recall seeing the package
Senator COOPER - Both of them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Or just one?
Mrs. PAINE - Both.
Senator COOPER - Did you feel them to see if the rods were in there?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I think Michael did, but I am not certain.
Senator COOPER - But you never did, yourself?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not my most pressing--
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not the most pressing thing I had to do at that time.
Senator COOPER - I know that. But you must have read after the assassination the story about Lee Oswald saying, he told Mr. Frazier, I think, that he was carrying some curtain rods in the car?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Do you remember reading that?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; I remember reading that.
Senator COOPER - Didn't that lead you-Did it lead you then to go in and see if the curtain rods were there?
Mrs. PAINE - It was all I could do at that point to answer my door, answer my telephone, and take care of my children.
Senator COOPER - I understand you had many things to do.
Mrs. PAINE - So I did not.
Senator COOPER - You never did do it?
Mrs. PAINE - I am not certain whether I specifically went in and checked on that. I recall a conversation with Michael about it and, to the best of my recollection, things looked as I expected to find them looking out there. This package with brown paper was still there.

 

Ms Paine is only willing to indicate that the PACKAGE was still there, not that the RODS were still there. This enables her to play dumb on 23 March when she gives on-the-record testimony at her home:

Mr. JENNER - Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes--as you recall.
Mr. JENNER - You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. PAINE - I have not touched it.

I.e.: Whatever you 'find' in that package now neither confirms nor denies anything I could know about what was in that package after Lee left my home the morning of the assassination. I am happy to talk about the presence in my garage of the package, but when it comes to its exact contents I know nothing.

Meanwhile, we have Mr Michael Paine saying this:

Mr. LIEBELER - Mr. Paine, you mentioned before these curtain rods that were in your garage. Can you tell us approximately how many curtain rods there were in the garage when you last saw them and tell us when you last saw them?
Mr. PAINE - I saw them quite recently, 2 weeks ago.
Mr. LIEBELER - How many curtain rods were there then?
Mr. PAINE - There might be as many as four.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were there ever any more than that?
Mr. PAINE - I don't believe so.

There might be as many as four curtain rods? Mr Paine shares his wife's allergy to non-declarative statements! Like her, he hedges carefully. There might be as many as four. Then again, there might be as few as two.

But! He may have let slip an important thought here: at some point there might have been as many as four curtain rods in the package in the garage.

Were there 4 curtain rods in that package before Mr Oswald's overnight at Irving (21-22 Nov), but only 2 after Mr Oswald left for work the morning of the assassination?

2 rods discovered in the Depository and tested for Mr Oswald's prints 15 March?
2 rods left in the Paine garage and removed from there on the record 23 March?

If so, then Agent Howlett and Lt. Day did a switcheroo: the two missing rods (which were found at the Depository, accurately length-marked with the digits 2-7-5 and 2-7-6) were magically turned into the two rods left behind in the garage (which needed to receive makey-uppey marking with the digits 2-7-5 and 2-7-6).

And how did they arrive at those makey-uppey markings? Why, by starting to count the Ruth Paine Exhibits at the makey-uppey number 270:

[Alan Ford]

Here's what Ms Ruth Paine told Secret Service on 26 November about blanket, package, rifle:

[Jon Banks]

The Klein's documents confirm Oswald was sent a rifle with a specific serial number.

No they don't

Oswald's wife confirms he received a rifle in this timeframe.

No she didn't

He is pictured holding that rifle.

Wrong. He's pictured holding a rifle. The serial number of the rifle can not be read.

His prints are found on that rifle.

There is no certainty this is actually true. The FBI found no prints on the rifle when they examined it only hours after the crime

Marina confirms he stored that rifle in the Paine's garage.

No she didn't

That rifle is gone and can't be accounted for in any other manner except as the one found in the TSBD after the assassination.

There is no proof that the MC rifle found at the TSBD (or any other rifle for that matter) was ever stored in Ruth Paine's garage.

That rifle has the same serial numbers as the one sent to Oswald.

There is no evidence that a rifle was actually sent to Oswald. All you can say is that the rifle found at the TSBD has the same serial number as the handwritten number on Waldman 7, which is proof of absolutely nothing as the document can not be authenticated.

But even if you want to come to that conclusion, there is absolutely no doubt that the rifle found in the TSBD belonged to Oswald - regardless of what defense attorney narrative you wish to entertain about where he kept the rifle.

Oh there is doubt alright. Just not in your mind, but that's just your opinion and the bad news for you is that your opinion is frequently wrong and nothing more than a premature conclusion based on speculation.

Great post.

I'll add that no one knows where LHO acquired the bullets for the Carcano. The FBI did look into that issue but never identified where he might've gotten his bullets.

Also, are we to believe Oswald owned no more than three bullets by 11/22/63? Did anyone find the rest of the Carcano bullets he allegedly owned?

[Jerry Organ]

Great post.

I'll add that no one knows where LHO acquired the bullets for the Carcano. The FBI did look into that issue but never identified where he might've gotten his bullets.

Also, are we to believe Oswald owned no more than three bullets by 11/22/63? Did anyone find the rest of the Carcano bullets he allegedly owned?

This is rich. If someone in Texas had recalled selling some loose rounds or a box of cheap surplus ammunition to the lackluster Oswald, the loons would be asking how is it possible to remember back to such a nondescript mundane transaction? The sales clerk must be in on the conspiracy to frame 'Lil' Lee.

[Martin Weidmann]

This is rich. If someone in Texas had recalled selling some loose rounds or a box of cheap surplus ammunition to the lackluster Oswald, the loons would be asking how is it possible to remember back to such a nondescript mundane transaction? The sales clerk must be in on the conspiracy to frame 'Lil' Lee.

argumentum ad absurdum

Classic LN, used every time they have nothing significant to say.

[Richard Smith]

Great post.

I'll add that no one knows where LHO acquired the bullets for the Carcano. The FBI did look into that issue but never identified where he might've gotten his bullets.

Also, are we to believe Oswald owned no more than three bullets by 11/22/63? Did anyone find the rest of the Carcano bullets he allegedly owned?

You think the Klein's documents are manipulated to falsely indicate that Oswald was sent a rifle with a specific serial number, that the BY photos do not depict Oswald holding the rifle left at the TSBD (with that same serial number) as experts have confirmed, that the DPD lied about finding Oswald's palmprint on that rifle, that Marina's WC testimony does not indicate that Oswald kept his rifle in the Paine's garage (despite her saying so in her testimony and directing the DPD to the garage when they ask about Oswald owning a rifle), that there is no accounting for Oswald's rifle except as the one found in the TSBD (he clearly possessed a rifle as shown by the BY photos and confirmed by his wife).  Oswald lies about his ownership of ANY rifle.  No other rifle is ever associated with him or accounted for in any manner to explain the Klein's documents, photos, and Marina's testimony.  It just vanishes into the ether if it is not the one found in the TSBD.  Unreal.