Author Topic: CIA Author Tim Weiner Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation  (Read 305 times)

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Former NY Times reporter Tim Weiner, author of a major and damning work on the CIA "Legacy of Ashes", says the root of the Stone thesis about the CIA being behind the assassination comes from Soviet disinformation.

He is, in part, referring to the story in the Italian communist newspaper claiming that Clay Shaw was on the board of a CIA fronted business in Rome that was a conduit for funding Agency operations. But he mentions several other KGB/Soviet disinformation efforts that, he says, Stone fell for. If you're familiar with Max Holland's criticism of Stone you probably know almost all of this.

The whole piece is here (the headline is largely misleading):  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/jfk-oliver-stone-conspiracy-theory-russian-disinformation-1260223/amp/?fbclid=IwAR1fxALsbBsEvbCJqFCui7njQguQk6_8FUNd9t89NlJlmhQi0fFqOueSWPw
 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 03:46:37 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: CIA Author Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2021, 03:23:19 AM »
This is why the CIA hates Oliver Stone:
Quote
Oliver Stone rejects Bill Maher's Russia concerns, claims US intel 'not reliable'

"Intelligence agencies are not reliable. They've been screwing with America going back to the Vietnam War, going back to the Iraq Wars, the Afghanistani wars," Stone continued. "It's very hard to find out the truth from them. Everything they publish -- the rumors, the anonymous sources, the think tanks, the anti-Russia -- it all adds up into this ball of wax that becomes enormous. And then they have people like you, who are skeptical generally, believing it. I would really triple-check everything, every one of those sources."

The Oscar-winning filmmaker said the way "they went after" Manafort was "bizarre," insisting Manafort "wasn't that intelligent" and was "just trying to make some money from Ukraine."

"We're at a moment in time where anything, anything about China or Russia is being broadcast loudly to the American people," Stone told Maher. "We have a very effective western media that does this all the time. You have to go back- and you have been skeptical in the past, why do we need enemies? Why do we need these enemies? Why do we want to make this into an issue? Why?"

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/oliver-stone-rejects-bill-mahers-russia-concerns-claims-us-intel-not-reliable

Stone was more right about Russiagate than most in the media and our intelligence agencies do leak lots of false or misleading information to the news media.

Biggest recent example is probably the Russian bounties on US troops in Afghanistan story. Which the Pentagon and Biden administration later admitted had little to no corroboration. Whomever leaked that Bounties story did so to hurt Trump politically.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 03:29:02 AM by Jon Banks »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: CIA Author Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2021, 07:03:20 AM »

Biggest recent example is probably the Russian bounties on US troops in Afghanistan story. Which the Pentagon and Biden administration later admitted had little to no corroboration. Whomever leaked that Bounties story did so to hurt Trump politically.
In retaliation for revoking John Brennan's security clearance [no doubt]
 Tim Weiner...good name. A real prize weiner. Went from writing for the rag NY Times to the rag Rolling Stone --the new bastion of journalism?

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: CIA Author Tim Weiner Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2021, 04:35:43 AM »
Quote
...The Oscar-winning filmmaker said the way "they went after" Manafort was "bizarre," insisting Manafort "wasn't that intelligent" and was "just trying to make some money from Ukraine."

This is why the CIA hates Oliver Stone:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/oliver-stone-rejects-bill-mahers-russia-concerns-claims-us-intel-not-reliable

Stone was more right about Russiagate than most in the media and our intelligence agencies do leak lots of false or misleading information to the news media.

Biggest recent example is probably the Russian bounties on US troops in Afghanistan story. Which the Pentagon and Biden administration later admitted had little to no corroboration. Whomever leaked that Bounties story did so to hurt Trump politically.

Wow! Jon asserts Manafort is a victim... just like Trump. The truth is Jon is a victim of Trump and Manafort... as all of us are.

CAUTION 900+ PAGE FILE:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
report_volume5.pdf - US Senate Select Committee on ...
...PDF
Aug 18, 2020 — Kilimnik. Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer. Kilimnik became an integral part of. Manafort's operations in Ukraine and Russia, ...

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0126
April 15, 2021
"...TREASURY TARGETS KNOWN RUSSIAN AGENT KONSTANTIN KILIMNIK
Konstantin Kilimnik (Kilimnik) is a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant and known Russian Intelligence Services agent implementing influence operations on their behalf. During the 2016 U.S. presidential election campaign, Kilimnik provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy. Additionally, Kilimnik sought to promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In 2018, Kilimnik was indicted on charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice regarding unregistered lobbying work. Kilimnik has also sought to assist designated former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. At Yanukovych’s direction, Kilimnik sought to institute a plan that would return Yanukovych to power in Ukraine.

Kilimnik was designated pursuant to E.O. 13848 for having engaged in foreign interference in the U.S. 2020 presidential election. Kilimnik was also designated pursuant to E.O. 13660 for acting for or on behalf of Yanukovych. Yanukovych, who is currently hiding in exile in Russia, was designated in 2014 pursuant to E.O. 13660 for his role in violating Ukrainian sovereignty.

The FBI is offering a reward of up to $250,000 for information leading to the arrest of Kilimnik."
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 04:44:40 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: CIA Author Tim Weiner Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2021, 01:36:46 PM »
This is why the CIA hates Oliver Stone:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/oliver-stone-rejects-bill-mahers-russia-concerns-claims-us-intel-not-reliable

Stone was more right about Russiagate than most in the media and our intelligence agencies do leak lots of false or misleading information to the news media.

Biggest recent example is probably the Russian bounties on US troops in Afghanistan story. Which the Pentagon and Biden administration later admitted had little to no corroboration. Whomever leaked that Bounties story did so to hurt Trump politically.


Wow! Jon asserts Manafort is a victim... just like Trump. The truth is Jon is a victim of Trump and Manafort... as all of us are.

CAUTION 900+ PAGE FILE:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
report_volume5.pdf - US Senate Select Committee on ...
...PDF
Aug 18, 2020 — Kilimnik. Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer. Kilimnik became an integral part of. Manafort's operations in Ukraine and Russia, ...

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0126
April 15, 2021
"...TREASURY TARGETS KNOWN RUSSIAN AGENT KONSTANTIN KILIMNIK
Konstantin Kilimnik (Kilimnik) is a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant and known Russian Intelligence Services agent implementing influence operations on their behalf. During the 2016 U.S. presidential election campaign, Kilimnik provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy. Additionally, Kilimnik sought to promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In 2018, Kilimnik was indicted on charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to obstruct justice regarding unregistered lobbying work. Kilimnik has also sought to assist designated former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych. At Yanukovych’s direction, Kilimnik sought to institute a plan that would return Yanukovych to power in Ukraine.

Kilimnik was designated pursuant to E.O. 13848 for having engaged in foreign interference in the U.S. 2020 presidential election. Kilimnik was also designated pursuant to E.O. 13660 for acting for or on behalf of Yanukovych. Yanukovych, who is currently hiding in exile in Russia, was designated in 2014 pursuant to E.O. 13660 for his role in violating Ukrainian sovereignty.

The FBI is offering a reward of up to $250,000 for information leading to the arrest of Kilimnik."

I didn’t say Manafort is a victim. I quoted Oliver Stone.

My opinion on Manafort is that what he did is common for political consultants who work abroad and he was only prosecuted because of his association with Trump.

If Kilimnik was a “known Russian spy” why was he allowed to freely travel to and from the US and meet with US diplomats as recently as 2017?

Also, why was he treated as a trusted source by the US embassy in Ukraine?

There’s more evidence of Kilimnik’s ties to US intelligence than Russian intelligence.

Key figure that Mueller report linked to Russia was a State Department intel source

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/447394-key-figure-that-mueller-report-linked-to-russia-was-a-state-department

“ He interacted with the chief political officer at the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, sometimes meeting several times a week to provide information on the Ukraine government. He relayed messages back to Ukraine’s leaders and delivered written reports to U.S. officials via emails that stretched on for thousands of words, the memos show.

The FBI knew all of this, well before the Mueller investigation concluded.

Alan Purcell, the chief political officer at the Kiev embassy from 2014 to 2017, told FBI agents that State officials, including senior embassy officials Alexander Kasanof and Eric Schultz, deemed Kilimnik to be such a valuable asset that they kept his name out of cables for fear he would be compromised by leaks to WikiLeaks...”



They potentially outed their own source in order to try to strengthen the weak case for conspiracy between Trump’s campaign and the Russian government.

I think the Trump-Russia stuff was a combination of paranoia in the intelligence community about Trump and the news media being manipulated by people who were affiliated with Hillary Clinton’s campaign…



« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 02:49:00 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: CIA Author Tim Weiner Says Stone is Relying on Soviet Disinformation
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2021, 09:00:51 PM »
Former NY Times reporter Tim Weiner, author of a major and damning work on the CIA "Legacy of Ashes", says the root of the Stone thesis about the CIA being behind the assassination comes from Soviet disinformation.

He is, in part, referring to the story in the Italian communist newspaper claiming that Clay Shaw was on the board of a CIA fronted business in Rome that was a conduit for funding Agency operations. But he mentions several other KGB/Soviet disinformation efforts that, he says, Stone fell for. If you're familiar with Max Holland's criticism of Stone you probably know almost all of this.

The whole piece is here (the headline is largely misleading):  https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/jfk-oliver-stone-conspiracy-theory-russian-disinformation-1260223/amp/?fbclid=IwAR1fxALsbBsEvbCJqFCui7njQguQk6_8FUNd9t89NlJlmhQi0fFqOueSWPw

Oliver Stone and Jim DiEugenio’s response to the Rolling Stone article:

Tim Weiner's review of "JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass" suffers from "Russiagate"
paranoia, as do many of his colleagues embedded in our Government-Media world, wherein
the malevolent Russians seem to be responsible not only for the election of Trump, but the
continuing sabotage of our cyber-infrastructures. Supposedly wanting their glorious
Communist Empire back, they are prepared to invade both Ukraine and NATO countries. Good
vs. Evil scenarios seem to work for most American people. But Weiner goes far afield when he
includes "JFK" in his contempt for so-called "tinfoil-hatted fabricators" who have no reason to
believe the Warren Commission cover-up.

Weiner has failed to update his tired angle on the assassination. In fact, the Russians were
working successfully at a détente with JFK, leading to the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. When he
was killed, Russian hopes - and the hopes of many liberated regions of the world (Egypt,
India, Indonesia, and Africa) -- were smashed as the hardliners in our Government once again
protected their interests.

(1) He accuses Jim DiEugenio, the writer of the documentary, and myself of falling for Russia's
trickery in using an Italian newspaper to blame Allen Dulles for his involvement in a military
coup to overthrow Charles de Gaulle in '61. But we did not use this Italian newspaper. We used
David Talbot's books, “The Devil's Chessboard" and "Brothers," The London Observer, and
Weiner's employer at that time, The New York Times -- as well as French newspapers
L'Express and Le Monde and sources close to de Gaulle like André Malraux and Alain Peyrefitte
to pinpoint the enmity of Dulles, working with the mutinous generals against the policies of de
Gaulle in Algeria.

(2) Nor did Jim Garrison base his ideas about Kennedy's assassination on that same marginal
Italian newspaper. He did so by investigating the things Lee Harvey Oswald did in the summer
of '63 in New Orleans and the people he associated with. Authors like Jeff Morley ("The Ghost:
The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton") and John Newman ("Oswald and
the CIA") have taken those discoveries further, and we interviewed both men in our film.
Weiner does not mention either interview.

(3) We largely relied on the database of documents that was released by the Assassination
Records Review Board (1994-1998), which Weiner covered as a reporter for The New York
Times, but did us no favors with his tepid interpretations of their work. We interviewed three
technical experts who worked for that Board. And we display many documents the Board
declassified. "JFK Revisited" is the first documentary to do this. We are not mystical or faith-
based. We are data-based.

Signed,
Oliver Stone & Jim DiEugenio


https://twitter.com/theoliverstone/status/1466478847256371207?s=21


I’ve read Talbot’s book on Dulles and it’s very well researched…

 

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