Author Topic: Fake News is Old News.  (Read 554 times)

Online Joe Elliott

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Fake News is Old News.
« on: November 14, 2021, 03:22:39 AM »

Fake News is Old News.

Lately, Trump supporters are arguing that the main stream news media, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, are covering up or ignoring the plain evidence, that the 2020 Presidential Election was stolen from Trump. A huge subset of the overall Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy, this one involving thousands of reporters. And, not just domestic outfits, but overseas ones like the BBC and Reuters.

But having we heard something similar before? Ah, yes, the Kennedy assassination. The media covering this up. Cronkite, Huntley, Brinkley, Rather and a host of others. JFK CTers, like Trump CTers, have no problem in readily accepting news media as being a Large-Secret-Conspiracy by itself. And being just a subset of the overall larger conspiracy. Yes, JFK CTers never used the term “Fake News”. But they follow the same concept.

The truth is, the 1930’s through the 1980’s was a golden era in American reporting. In previous generations, it was pretty bad. Very partisan. Not dedicated to going after the truth. But over a couple of generations, it was very good quality.

What caused it to go downhill? Well, with only 3 main competitors, there was no room for going for a special niche. It made more sense for all three, CBS, NBC and ABC to pursue the truth and try to out compete each other.

But, with the more cable options available, it makes financial sense to specialize in going after a target audience, like Fox News, Newsmax and OAN do. Walter Cronkite used to end his broadcast with “And that’s the way it is”. Tucker Carlson should end his with “And that’s all just what you wanted to hear”.

And so, millions of Americans get biased and even obviously false news on TV. Yes, good options are available, like the BBC. But too many turn to a bad option. Forty years ago, the available quality of the news was much better.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2021, 03:18:39 PM »
Fake News is Old News.

Lately, Trump supporters are arguing that the main stream news media, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, are covering up or ignoring the plain evidence, that the 2020 Presidential Election was stolen from Trump. A huge subset of the overall Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy, this one involving thousands of reporters. And, not just domestic outfits, but overseas ones like the BBC and Reuters.

But having we heard something similar before? Ah, yes, the Kennedy assassination. The media covering this up. Cronkite, Huntley, Brinkley, Rather and a host of others. JFK CTers, like Trump CTers, have no problem in readily accepting news media as being a Large-Secret-Conspiracy by itself. And being just a subset of the overall larger conspiracy. Yes, JFK CTers never used the term “Fake News”. But they follow the same concept.

The truth is, the 1930’s through the 1980’s was a golden era in American reporting. In previous generations, it was pretty bad. Very partisan. Not dedicated to going after the truth. But over a couple of generations, it was very good quality.

What caused it to go downhill? Well, with only 3 main competitors, there was no room for going for a special niche. It made more sense for all three, CBS, NBC and ABC to pursue the truth and try to out compete each other.

But, with the more cable options available, it makes financial sense to specialize in going after a target audience, like Fox News, Newsmax and OAN do. Walter Cronkite used to end his broadcast with “And that’s the way it is”. Tucker Carlson should end his with “And that’s all just what you wanted to hear”.

And so, millions of Americans get biased and even obviously false news on TV. Yes, good options are available, like the BBC. But too many turn to a bad option. Forty years ago, the available quality of the news was much better.

Whether it was the news savvy Buddhist protesters in Vietnam, or JFK “leaking” his propaganda to a national magazine, smart people would try to manipulate the news media back then. And they continue to do so these days. It’s a multi-ring circus that I find to be ridiculous. I very rarely watch any of the news channels on TV anymore. It would have to be a major ongoing event that interests me to get me to watch.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2021, 04:25:29 PM »
It was easier for the government to manipulate and control the Press when there were fewer options for national and world news.

The internet, social media, and smartphones have democratized the Press and weakened the power of gatekeepers in the news media.

While yes, it's true that there is much "fake news" and disinfo in alternative and new media, it's also true that there's "Fake news" and disinfo in traditional media.

Look at the infamous Steele Dossier for example which has been exposed as having been rooted in political opposition research. Several national news media outlets initially treated the Steele Dossier as legitimate raw intelligence on Trump and his associates. Four years later we now know that it was disinformation. That's just one example of many where the Press promoted false narratives or disinformation. The Iraq WMDs controversy is another major example.

I could go on but I don't have the time to list every false narrative or inaccurate story that originated from the national Press.

The distrust that Americans have in the news media exists because it's easier to see through the hidden agendas and false narratives today...

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2021, 12:30:14 AM »
Fake News is Old News.

Lately, Trump supporters are arguing that the main stream news media, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, are covering up or ignoring the plain evidence, that the 2020 Presidential Election was stolen from Trump. A huge subset of the overall Large-Secret-Enduring conspiracy, this one involving thousands of reporters. And, not just domestic outfits, but overseas ones like the BBC and Reuters.

But having we heard something similar before? Ah, yes, the Kennedy assassination. The media covering this up. Cronkite, Huntley, Brinkley, Rather and a host of others. JFK CTers, like Trump CTers, have no problem in readily accepting news media as being a Large-Secret-Conspiracy by itself. And being just a subset of the overall larger conspiracy. Yes, JFK CTers never used the term “Fake News”. But they follow the same concept.

The truth is, the 1930’s through the 1980’s was a golden era in American reporting. In previous generations, it was pretty bad. Very partisan. Not dedicated to going after the truth. But over a couple of generations, it was very good quality.

What caused it to go downhill? Well, with only 3 main competitors, there was no room for going for a special niche. It made more sense for all three, CBS, NBC and ABC to pursue the truth and try to out compete each other.

But, with the more cable options available, it makes financial sense to specialize in going after a target audience, like Fox News, Newsmax and OAN do. Walter Cronkite used to end his broadcast with “And that’s the way it is”. Tucker Carlson should end his with “And that’s all just what you wanted to hear”.

And so, millions of Americans get biased and even obviously false news on TV. Yes, good options are available, like the BBC. But too many turn to a bad option. Forty years ago, the available quality of the news was much better.

The fact is Criminal Donald and his cohorts tried to steal the election from the American people with their illegal coup attempt via the courts and when that didn't happen they tried to illegally seize power via a violent insurrection.

The right wing media played right along echoing the same election lies and propaganda. And all the while downplaying the attempted coup by falsely claiming it was "just a walk in the park".

The fact is the media is controlled by the right wing media. Radio and television is dominated by right wing corporations.

AT&T has been funding the far right propaganda Trump channel OAN which also now owns CNN. No surprise that CNN has taken a hard right turn pushing the same bogus propaganda which is why their ratings are near the bottom.

AM radio is completely dominated with far right wing syndicated talk shows all across America.

Also, Sinclair Broadcasting, a corporation that is even more far right than Faux Propaganda owns the majority of ABC, CBS, NBC local tv affiliates. So, when you turn on your local news if it's a Sinclair owned station, you will be fed far right wing commentaries and right wing disinformation by your local anchors reading from a script.

It was even revealed that Twitter was pushing more far right trends on their platform.

So, the media is dominated by far right wing fake news and even on the Sunday morning news programs right wing Republicans are booked as guests pushing their lies and the hosts never challenge them allowing their disinformation to seep into the MSM. The fske right wing disinformation is everywhere.                       

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2021, 03:48:20 AM »

The fact is Criminal Donald and his cohorts tried to steal the election from the American people with their illegal coup attempt via the courts and when that didn't happen they tried to illegally seize power via a violent insurrection.

The right wing media played right along echoing the same election lies and propaganda. And all the while downplaying the attempted coup by falsely claiming it was "just a walk in the park".

The fact is the media is controlled by the right wing media. Radio and television is dominated by right wing corporations.

Some of media is controlled by the right wing. Fox News, Newsmax and OAN, certainly. But the media as a whole? No. Only some media outlets, which cater toward the right-wing audience who want a right-wing slant. Not so much to media corporations as a whole trying to control public opinion.



AT&T has been funding the far right propaganda Trump channel OAN which also now owns CNN. No surprise that CNN has taken a hard right turn pushing the same bogus propaganda which is why their ratings are near the bottom.

I don’t think CNN is pushing the same bogus propaganda. A Google search of:

          cnn “January 6”

brings up:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/

          “ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY – Paths to Insurrection”

Hardly a right-wing down playing the January 6 riot. Nor do I see any support for the “Stolen Election” claims by CNN.


AM radio is completely dominated with far right wing syndicated talk shows all across America.

Some AM stations that cater to a right-wing audience. But a lot of stations report the regular news.



Also, Sinclair Broadcasting, a corporation that is even more far right than Faux Propaganda owns the majority of ABC, CBS, NBC local tv affiliates. So, when you turn on your local news if it's a Sinclair owned station, you will be fed far right wing commentaries and right wing disinformation by your local anchors reading from a script.

I don’t see “60 minutes”, the most prominent news program, pushing the Trump narrative.


It was even revealed that Twitter was pushing more far right trends on their platform.

So, the media is dominated by far right wing fake news and even on the Sunday morning news programs right wing Republicans are booked as guests pushing their lies and the hosts never challenge them allowing their disinformation to seep into the MSM. The fske right wing disinformation is everywhere.                       

The media is clearly not dominated by the right-wing. If this were so, why has Trump always complained about the “Fake News” media? While people are free to choose right-wing media stations, on both TV and radio that will mislead them, the bulk of our media sources are still good.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2021, 04:04:11 AM »

It was easier for the government to manipulate and control the Press when there were fewer options for national and world news.

The internet, social media, and smartphones have democratized the Press and weakened the power of gatekeepers in the news media.

While yes, it's true that there is much "fake news" and disinfo in alternative and new media, it's also true that there's "Fake news" and disinfo in traditional media.

Clearly this was not the case. In 1968 Walter Cronkite turned against the Vietnam War, clearly against the wishes of President Johnson. Johnson said "If I have lost Cronkite I have lost middle America." Clearly the government was not controlling the media. In early 1968, the government still wanted the Vietnam war to be continued. Examples of governments which do not control the media do not come any clearer than this. But, somehow, we are to believe that the government was able to control the media about the JFK assassination but not over continuing it’s support of the Vietnam war.



Look at the infamous Steele Dossier for example which has been exposed as having been rooted in political opposition research. Several national news media outlets initially treated the Steele Dossier as legitimate raw intelligence on Trump and his associates. Four years later we now know that it was disinformation. That's just one example of many where the Press promoted false narratives or disinformation. The Iraq WMDs controversy is another major example.

Some of the Steele Dossier contained false information. Christopher Steele made, I think, a good effort to try to find the truth. But not everyone he talked to was telling the truth. Big surprise there. I’m not totally convinced that Russia didn’t help Trump and was not interested in his success. Clearly, they were pleased that he became President. Why wouldn’t they be?


I could go on but I don't have the time to list every false narrative or inaccurate story that originated from the national Press.

The distrust that Americans have in the news media exists because it's easier to see through the hidden agendas and false narratives today...

Americans distrust the main news media largely because of the lies told be certain right-wing media, like Fox News, Newsmax and OAN.

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 05:45:30 AM »
Clearly this was not the case. In 1968 Walter Cronkite turned against the Vietnam War, clearly against the wishes of President Johnson. Johnson said "If I have lost Cronkite I have lost middle America." Clearly the government was not controlling the media. In early 1968, the government still wanted the Vietnam war to be continued. Examples of governments which do not control the media do not come any clearer than this. But, somehow, we are to believe that the government was able to control the media about the JFK assassination but not over continuing it’s support of the Vietnam war.

Does the government have total control over the Press? No. Never said that. But foreign affairs, war coverage, and national security policy coverage requires cooperation with the military and intelligence services. So those institutions have great influence over national media narratives on certain topics.

When the national press challenges government narratives (as Cronkite did), it's the exception, not the rule. In recent years, the media uncritically supported the Iraq WMDs stuff, the lies about the Anthrax attacks, the lies about the war in Afghanistan, and whitewashed the Al Qaeda-linked rebels that the CIA supported in Syria (ie "Moderate Rebels"). Those are just a few recent examples.


Some of the Steele Dossier contained false information. Christopher Steele made, I think, a good effort to try to find the truth. But not everyone he talked to was telling the truth. Big surprise there. I’m not totally convinced that Russia didn’t help Trump and was not interested in his success. Clearly, they were pleased that he became President. Why wouldn’t they be?

The Steele Dossier was political opposition research. It wasn't a serious intelligence document.

I'm convinced that Putin held a grudge towards the Clintons because they bragged about rigging elections in Russia in the 90s.

What many Russians, but few Americans, know is that 20 years before Russia tried to swing an American presidential election, America tried to swing a presidential election in Russia. The year was 1996. Boris Yeltsin was seeking a second term, and Bill Clinton desperately wanted to help. “I want this guy to win so bad,” he told Deputy Secretary of State Strobe Talbott, “it hurts.”
....
In a stunning turnaround, Yeltsin—who had begun the campaign in last place—defeated his communist rival in the election’s final round by 13 percentage points. Talbott declared that “a number of international observers have judged this to be a free and fair election.” But Michael Meadowcroft, a Brit who led the election-observer team of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, later claimed there had been widespread voter fraud, which he had been pressured not to expose.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/07/the-us-has-a-long-history-of-election-meddling/565538/

Whether it's true or not that the US helped steal an election in Russia in the 90s, many Russians believe it to be true. And Yeltsin was a god awful leader for Russia.

Beyond the personal stuff, I don't think Putin cared who won and there's no evidence of cooperation between Trump and Russian government officials.


Americans distrust the main news media largely because of the lies told be certain right-wing media, like Fox News, Newsmax and OAN.

I'm politically on the Left and don't watch any of those networks. I mostly read the NY Times and listen to Podcasts. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 01:20:33 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 06:09:18 AM »
Some of media is controlled by the right wing. Fox News, Newsmax and OAN, certainly. But the media as a whole? No. Only some media outlets, which cater toward the right-wing audience who want a right-wing slant. Not so much to media corporations as a whole trying to control public opinion.

Name one major Liberal Media outlet that is "all liberal" like right wingers have Faux, OAN, and Newsmax which is far right wing. There isn't one.

That's false, ever since Biden was elected, the main stream media took a right slant to boost their ratings. Faux News does what it does because right wing propaganda is an easy way to get ratings, and ratings equal as revenue, and Faux News is a for-profit business. No surprise CNN is going the Faux News route. It’s where the ratings are.

How many telecommunications companies are creating an "all liberal" network like AT&T funded the far right wing disinformation OAN? The answer is 0. 

How AT&T helped build far-right One America News

Reuters review of court records shows the role AT&T played in creating and funding OAN, a network that continues to spread conspiracy theories about the 2020 election and the COVID-19 pandemic. Dallas-based AT&T, a mobile-phone and Internet provider, also owns entertainment giant Warner Media, which includes CNN.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-oneamerica-att/

I don’t think CNN is pushing the same bogus propaganda. A Google search of:

          cnn “January 6”

brings up:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2021/06/us/capitol-riot-paths-to-insurrection/

          “ASSAULT ON DEMOCRACY – Paths to Insurrection”

Hardly a right-wing down playing the January 6 riot. Nor do I see any support for the “Stolen Election” claims by CNN.

CNN just ran a propaganda hit piece against Vice President Harris while promoting a pro Chris Christie documentary. CNN has been pushing right wing talking points for months in order to boost ratings, especially the garbage Chris Cillizza writes in order to generate clicks on the CNN website. 

Last night, the CNN prime time 6-9pm show didn't even mention the infrastructure bill once for full hour on the historic day. And then, CNN promoted another full hour with the Chris Christie puff piece documentary. Same garbage they did for Trump in 2016 giving him full 24/7 coverage and barely covered the Clinton campaign. So much for the "liberal media".

Politico was bought by a German right wing billionaire and they too went extremely negative against President Biden. All these news outlets are being sold and then bought by right wingers. That's why the right wing "liberal media" claim is a joke.

German publisher Axel Springer to acquire U.S. news website Politico for over $1 billion
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/axel-springer-acquire-news-website-politico-2021-08-26/

Some AM stations that cater to a right-wing audience. But a lot of stations report the regular news.

AM radio is completely dominated by far right wing syndicated talk shows which are broadcasted on thousands of radio stations. Name a radio broadcasting company that syndicates Liberal talk radio on thousands of stations. Once again, there isn't any. 

There are only a handful of all liberal radio stations in the United States on low wattage stations. The news stations still parrot right wing talking points for ratings.       

This article is from a decade ago and it details how right wing radio dominates the airwaves. It's been that way since the 90's after the Fairness Doctrine expired in 1987.   

Conservative Talk Dominates the Airwaves
https://newsgeneration.com/2010/05/11/conservative-talk-dominates-the-airwaves/

I don’t see “60 minutes”, the most prominent news program, pushing the Trump narrative.

60 Minutes is a national news program which is shown on CBS stations across America. The local news on CBS, NBC, ABC Sinclair owned broadcasting stations push the Trump propaganda narrative. That's what most people watch. Sinclair owns the overwhelming number of CBS, NBC, ABC tv affiliates in the United States.   

Check out this article from 2018 to see the far right wing Trump propaganda being pushed in your local tv news markets. And again, there is no broadcasting company that promotes "liberal news" on local ABC, NBC, CBS tv stations.   

Sinclair, the pro-Trump, conservative company taking over local news, explained
Sinclair reaches 40 percent of households — and soon will reach 72 percent.

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/3/17180020/sinclair-broadcast-group-conservative-trump-david-smith-local-news-tv-affiliate

The media is clearly not dominated by the right-wing. If this were so, why has Trump always complained about the “Fake News” media? While people are free to choose right-wing media stations, on both TV and radio that will mislead them, the bulk of our media sources are still good.

Criminal Donald calls it "fake news" so he can dismiss his crimes and scandals. That's the scam he runs to get the morons in his base to believe him so they turn against the MSM and only listen to what he says. He's nothing but a fraud and he has already admitted to doing that.

Donald Trump finally admits that “fake news” just means news he doesn’t like
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/9/17335306/trump-tweet-twitter-latest-fake-news-credentials

Again, point to one media outlet that is "all liberal" equivalent to right wing Faux, OAN, Newsmax. There isn't any.   

We have a main stream media and a far right wing fake news media in the United States. There is no "liberal media" in the United States. Now the main stream media, which is supposed to be independent, has decided to amp up right wing talking points to boost their ratings. So yes, the media is right wing dominated and it's getting worse because independent outlets are being bought up by the far right and they push right wing disinformation. Politico and Sinclair Broadcasting is a perfect example of that.                 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 06:58:41 AM by Rick Plant »

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2021, 01:30:49 PM »

We have a main stream media and a far right wing fake news media in the United States. There is no "liberal media" in the United States.
Now the main stream media which is supposed to be independent has decided to amp up right wing talking points to boost their ratings. So yes, the media is right wing dominated and it's getting worse because independent outlets are being bought up by the far right. Politico and Sinclair Broadcasting is a perfect example of that.               

Most people who work in the media, maybe 60%, are politically Liberal. So I understand why some view the media as often biased in favor of the Democrats.

However, the news business is a “business”. The news media producers and editors publish what gets the most “clicks” or highest ratings, not what helps Liberals or Democrats politically. Sometimes their business interests align with Democratic agendas (ie anti-Trump coverage) but not always.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Fake News is Old News.
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2021, 01:49:20 AM »
Most people who work in the media, maybe 60%, are politically Liberal. So I understand why some view the media as often biased in favor of the Democrats.

However, the news business is a “business”. The news media producers and editors publish what gets the most “clicks” or highest ratings, not what helps Liberals or Democrats politically. Sometimes their business interests align with Democratic agendas (ie anti-Trump coverage) but not always.

It doesn't matter what political preference a person has privately. When the network puts out specific talking points that's what gets put out on the air. And if the person wants to keep their job, they will do what the network wants. It's about ratings and profits and nothing else.

Today on MSNBC, Chuck Todd was using the same right wing talking points that you hear on Faux. Chris Christie is getting a pro documentary series of himself on CNN to boost his political aspirations. On the ABC Evening News last night, the Infrastructure Bill wasn't even the lead story. CNN waited an entire hour to mention it during CNN prime time. So where is this "liberal bias" in the main stream media?     

Do you think the hosts at Faux actually believe all the COVID and vaccine lies they push when they themselves are vaccinated? ​Of course not. They need to gin up controversy and keep the sheep angry so they keep tuning in. It's entertainment and not news. And we all suffer because of it.

And these same right wingers on Faux and Newsmax who rail against vaccine mandates tell their viewers "do not comply" to mandates, all comply themselves to vaccine mandates because Faux and Newsmax implemented vaccine mandates as a company policy. So these hacks have to comply to mandates, or they will be out of a job, but tell their sheep viewers to "do not comply" when their own employers mandate them. They are blatant hypocrites. Why aren't they not complying to their mandates like they tell their sheep viewers to do? Because they want to keep their jobs, that's why. So, all the vaccine lies they push is keeping a significant portion of the population from getting vaccinated which is allowing the virus to keep surging. And as a result, they are killing off their own viewers just so they can have high tv ratings and make huge profits.

So, when right wing billionaires buy up independent media outlets and start pushing right wing propaganda, where is the "liberal bias"?

CNN, Politico, and the majority ABC, CBS, NBC local tv affiliates are owned by right wingers. Is anybody really going to claim that the right wingers who own these media outlets are going to promote a "liberal news bias" against their own interests?  :D             
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 02:01:47 AM by Rick Plant »

 

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