Author Topic: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.  (Read 201 times)

Online Joe Elliott

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Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.


Donald Trump is starting to line up candidates, who, if they say the 2020 election was rigged, he will endorse them for the office of Secretary of State in their state. This is particularly being pushed in swing states that could go either way. This will, in theory, if he gets enough of them elected, ensure his win in 2024 Presidential Election, regardless how the people vote.

Imagine the kind of phone call Trump made in December to the Secretary of State of Georgia “Brad, all I need is 11,782 votes”. Come November 2024, Trump is going to be calling and saying:
Trump: “Eric, all I need is 254,389 votes”.
Eric: “Mr. President, I think that would look to suspicious. How about if we make it 287,226 votes.”
Trump: “Very well. I’ll leave the details to you.”


Possible Strategy 1:

Trump clearly broke the law with his phone call. If that is not an attempt to reverse a fair and free election, what would be considered enough evidence?
If that is not enough evidence, we shouldn’t even bother to have laws against reversing fair and free elections.
Convict him of the crime he committed and he is illegible to run. I would ordinarily conclude, no, we should let the people decide. But Trump is setting things up so he won’t let them decide. So let’s get him.

Pitfall of Strategy 1:

Can we really find a Georgia jury of 12 citizens without a single MAGA member? Anyone who saves Trump by creating a hung jury will be a big hero. He can probably get a high paying job he is unqualified for. Get laid anytime he wants to. Maybe have his image carved on Stone Mountain.


Possible Strategy 2:

Democrats have to show up strong in 2022. There is no longer such a thing as an off-year election. Must maintain control of the Senate and Congress, to assure no end around in January 2025 that selects Trump as President despite the election results. This is what Trump wants. This is his strategy. This is what he is working toward.

And above all else, minimize the election of Trump candidates for the offices of the “Secretary of State” for the various states. If Trump succeeds here, you might as well not even bother voting in November 2024.

Possible Strategy 3:

If both Strategy 1 and 2 fail, Secretary of States have to consider the Undemocratic Option. If:

1. Trump loses both the popular vote and the electoral vote.
And:
2. Trump succeeds in getting a single state to flip, to gets its electors switched from the slate selected by the voters to a slate for Trump.

Then each honest Secretary of State must select a Democratic slate. Even if his state voted for Trump.

I am sorry to make such an outrageous suggestion. But if one side is fighting dirty, one side is kicking below the belt, then the side that only fights according to the Queensbury Rules is going to lose. Sometimes, you have to fight fire with fire.

Obviously, this should not be done if Trump wins the election legitimately. I know he will make himself President for Life. But, as Benjamin Franklin alluded to, people generally end up with the government they deserve. And if we, collectively deserve it, we deserve it.

So, I think quiet, behind the scenes conversations need to be made to fair minded Secretary of States who are still in office in 2024, to urge as many as possible to privately agree to this.


What do people think of this outrageous proposal?

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 10:07:51 PM »
Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.


Donald Trump is starting to line up candidates, who, if they say the 2020 election was rigged, he will endorse them for the office of Secretary of State in their state. This is particularly being pushed in swing states that could go either way. This will, in theory, if he gets enough of them elected, ensure his win in 2024 Presidential Election, regardless how the people vote.

Imagine the kind of phone call Trump made in December to the Secretary of State of Georgia “Brad, all I need is 11,782 votes”. Come November 2024, Trump is going to be calling and saying:
Trump: “Eric, all I need is 254,389 votes”.
Eric: “Mr. President, I think that would look to suspicious. How about if we make it 287,226 votes.”
Trump: “Very well. I’ll leave the details to you.”


Possible Strategy 1:

Trump clearly broke the law with his phone call. If that is not an attempt to reverse a fair and free election, what would be considered enough evidence?
If that is not enough evidence, we shouldn’t even bother to have laws against reversing fair and free elections.
Convict him of the crime he committed and he is illegible to run. I would ordinarily conclude, no, we should let the people decide. But Trump is setting things up so he won’t let them decide. So let’s get him.

Pitfall of Strategy 1:

Can we really find a Georgia jury of 12 citizens without a single MAGA member? Anyone who saves Trump by creating a hung jury will be a big hero. He can probably get a high paying job he is unqualified for. Get laid anytime he wants to. Maybe have his image carved on Stone Mountain.


Possible Strategy 2:

Democrats have to show up strong in 2022. There is no longer such a thing as an off-year election. Must maintain control of the Senate and Congress, to assure no end around in January 2025 that selects Trump as President despite the election results. This is what Trump wants. This is his strategy. This is what he is working toward.

And above all else, minimize the election of Trump candidates for the offices of the “Secretary of State” for the various states. If Trump succeeds here, you might as well not even bother voting in November 2024.

Possible Strategy 3:

If both Strategy 1 and 2 fail, Secretary of States have to consider the Undemocratic Option. If:

1. Trump loses both the popular vote and the electoral vote.
And:
2. Trump succeeds in getting a single state to flip, to gets its electors switched from the slate selected by the voters to a slate for Trump.

Then each honest Secretary of State must select a Democratic slate. Even if his state voted for Trump.

I am sorry to make such an outrageous suggestion. But if one side is fighting dirty, one side is kicking below the belt, then the side that only fights according to the Queensbury Rules is going to lose. Sometimes, you have to fight fire with fire.

Obviously, this should not be done if Trump wins the election legitimately. I know he will make himself President for Life. But, as Benjamin Franklin alluded to, people generally end up with the government they deserve. And if we, collectively deserve it, we deserve it.

So, I think quiet, behind the scenes conversations need to be made to fair minded Secretary of States who are still in office in 2024, to urge as many as possible to privately agree to this.


What do people think of this outrageous proposal?

Do you mean other than the false conspiracy theories and fake premises that it includes?  It's amazing how obsessed some people are with Trump.  And all the more ironic when they complain about him.  How about instead of all this nonsense dems run on their ideas and accomplishments and get more votes than Trump on that basis?  I can understand why that wouldn't appeal to dems at this point in the Biden administration with approval ratings dropping like a rock in the aftermath of each disaster and an even more unpopular Kamala waiting in the wings. 

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2021, 04:54:56 AM »

Do you mean other than the false conspiracy theories and fake premises that it includes?  It's amazing how obsessed some people are with Trump.  And all the more ironic when they complain about him.  How about instead of all this nonsense dems run on their ideas and accomplishments and get more votes than Trump on that basis?  I can understand why that wouldn't appeal to dems at this point in the Biden administration with approval ratings dropping like a rock in the aftermath of each disaster and an even more unpopular Kamala waiting in the wings.

Biden administration a disaster? Hardly. Getting out of Afghanistan was the correct move. The quick and easy win of the Taliban shows that they were guaranteed to win as soon as we left. And I am not in favor of continuing a ‘Forever War’ indefinitely. We should have left as soon as bin Laden was killed.

Amazing that some people, like me, is obsessed with Trump? First of all, am I obsessed with Trump? Absolutely. Just as Churchill became ‘obsessed’ with the danger of Hitler, I am ‘obsessed’ with the danger of Donald Trump.

Trump tried to steal the election. He pressured secretary of states, like that for the state of Georgia, to flip the election. The evidence is overwhelming, the recorded phone call. It is clear that he is beyond the reach of justice, regardless of the evidence. And now, he is endorsing new candidates for secretary of state in various states. But only if they support the lie that the election of 2020 was a fraud. Clearly preparing for Trump stealing the election in 2024. So, yes, I am obsessed with Trump, who is clearly trying to become President for Life and it seems plausible that he may succeed, if he can just get enough secretary of states elected in the off-voting year of 2022. So, I am trying to alert others to this danger.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2021, 06:03:39 PM »
Biden administration a disaster? Hardly. Getting out of Afghanistan was the correct move. The quick and easy win of the Taliban shows that they were guaranteed to win as soon as we left. And I am not in favor of continuing a ‘Forever War’ indefinitely. We should have left as soon as bin Laden was killed.

Amazing that some people, like me, is obsessed with Trump? First of all, am I obsessed with Trump? Absolutely. Just as Churchill became ‘obsessed’ with the danger of Hitler, I am ‘obsessed’ with the danger of Donald Trump.

Trump tried to steal the election. He pressured secretary of states, like that for the state of Georgia, to flip the election. The evidence is overwhelming, the recorded phone call. It is clear that he is beyond the reach of justice, regardless of the evidence. And now, he is endorsing new candidates for secretary of state in various states. But only if they support the lie that the election of 2020 was a fraud. Clearly preparing for Trump stealing the election in 2024. So, yes, I am obsessed with Trump, who is clearly trying to become President for Life and it seems plausible that he may succeed, if he can just get enough secretary of states elected in the off-voting year of 2022. So, I am trying to alert others to this danger.

Getting out of Afghanistan was the correct decision.  Thankfully Trump, unlike every president before him, stood up to the military and lobbyists to make that decision.  It wasn't the decision to leave that was the disaster but the way in which Biden implemented it.  Leaving in a rush for political reasons to be out before 9/11 that resulted in unnecessary chaos and deaths.  Civilians should have been evacuated first instead of the military.  It was an unmitigated fiasco that will forever be a stain on America.  His cratering poll numbers reflect the many ongoing disasters.  In only nine months Biden has transformed the most prosperous country in the history of the world into a Soviet-bloc era country in which the shelves are empty, prices are skyrocketing, no one is working, and shortages abound.  It is an economic catastrophe that hasn't been experienced since the depression.  Around 2K Americans are still dying every day from the pandemic despite having the vaccine available from day one of his administration.  The equivalent of a 9/11 death toll but occurring every day.  And he often has no daily events.  None.  When he does show up, he reads off a teleprompter in a fake WH replica.  It's surreal.  Imagine if Trump was conducting himself like that and never answering any questions? 

The Wash Post retracted the fake news story about Georgia.  Gore challenged the 2000 election results to the Supreme Court.  Hillary claims to this day that the Russians stole the 2016 election (the real "big lie").  A baseless conspiracy theory that consumed millions of tax payer dollars and resources.  And you don't see any irony about suggesting the 2024 election will be stolen while criticizing Trump for suggesting an election was stolen?   

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2021, 07:16:11 PM »
Getting out of Afghanistan was the correct decision.  Thankfully Trump, unlike every president before him, stood up to the military and lobbyists to make that decision.  It wasn't the decision to leave that was the disaster but the way in which Biden implemented it.  Leaving in a rush for political reasons to be out before 9/11 that resulted in unnecessary chaos and deaths.  Civilians should have been evacuated first instead of the military.  It was an unmitigated fiasco that will forever be a stain on America.

God, you're radicalized.

Quote
His cratering poll numbers reflect the many ongoing disasters.  In only nine months Biden has transformed the most prosperous country in the history of the world into a Soviet-bloc era country in which the shelves are empty, prices are skyrocketing, no one is working, and shortages abound.  It is an economic catastrophe that hasn't been experienced since the depression.

And a drama queen.

Quote
Around 2K Americans are still dying every day from the pandemic despite having the vaccine available from day one of his administration.  The equivalent of a 9/11 death toll but occurring every day.  And he often has no daily events.  None.  When he does show up, he reads off a teleprompter in a fake WH replica.  It's surreal.  Imagine if Trump was conducting himself like that and never answering any questions? 

Sensible people and true believers in democracy around the world wish your brand of Trump Fascism dead. Trump took questions on the run, in the driveway, and only whenever he felt like it, and he banned certain reporters. Remember what Trump said about Obama's playing golf? Then Trump became the President who played more golf and took more time off than possibly any President in history.

"Nearly a Third of the Days he’s been President, Trump has Visited a Trump-Branded Property" ( Link )

Quote
The Wash Post retracted the fake news story about Georgia.  Gore challenged the 2000 election results to the Supreme Court.  Hillary claims to this day that the Russians stole the 2016 election (the real "big lie").  A baseless conspiracy theory that consumed millions of tax payer dollars and resources.  And you don't see any irony about suggesting the 2024 election will be stolen while criticizing Trump for suggesting an election was stolen?

I don't think Hillary says anymore than that the Russians influenced the 2016 election.

    "USA TODAY's analysis of 2016 and 2020 election media coverage concludes the
     media did not report Russia stole the election in 2016 and is not now reporting
     the 2020 election would be impossible to steal. Rather, major media outlets have
     reported that Russia sought to use misinformation to influence American voters
     in 2016 and are now reporting that 2020 election fraud claims are unsupported.
     In both cases, this reporting is consistent with information provided by government
     officials in intelligence, law enforcement and the courts."

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Radical, Undemocratic Proposal that I Think Should be Considered.
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2021, 10:29:56 PM »
God, you're radicalized.

And a drama queen.

Sensible people and true believers in democracy around the world wish your brand of Trump Fascism dead. Trump took questions on the run, in the driveway, and only whenever he felt like it, and he banned certain reporters. Remember what Trump said about Obama's playing golf? Then Trump became the President who played more golf and took more time off than possibly any President in history.

"Nearly a Third of the Days he’s been President, Trump has Visited a Trump-Branded Property" ( Link )

I don't think Hillary says anymore than that the Russians influenced the 2016 election.

    "USA TODAY's analysis of 2016 and 2020 election media coverage concludes the
     media did not report Russia stole the election in 2016 and is not now reporting
     the 2020 election would be impossible to steal. Rather, major media outlets have
     reported that Russia sought to use misinformation to influence American voters
     in 2016 and are now reporting that 2020 election fraud claims are unsupported.
     In both cases, this reporting is consistent with information provided by government
     officials in intelligence, law enforcement and the courts."

Does Trudeau need any more shoe polish for his blackface parties?  If so, he better order it now because it will likely be out of stock soon due to Biden's supply chain breaking down.

 

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