3D Modeling

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Online Jerry Organ

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2021, 02:36:59 PM »
If Mr Andrew Mason is correct then 3 shots were fired in about 4.8 secs.

It matches well with Harold Norman’s (closest ear witness to the shooter ) boom clack clack spacing.

There has been suggestion made that the “clack clack” noise may be the “clink clink” noise of shells bouncing rather than manual bolt operation.

If so then a semi auto rifle such as an FN-FAL with larger scope centrally mounted , could have been the rifle used.

Such rifle seen by Arnold Rowland from distance when shooter was at SW window at 12;15 , could have been mistaken as an 30.06 hunting rifle much more probably than the MC rifle with scope mounted to side.

Norman heard a rifle being fired at the SE corner.

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The FN.-FALcould  be disassembled (barrel removed from receiver )such that both parts could be Possibly hidden  under a jacket . Or brought into the building in a 24” length package?

The shooter would need an accomplice to help use the East elevator to descend to the 2nd floor and exit out into storage room at approximately 45sec post shots

(Note: this possibly resolves the Mrs Garner by the 4th floor staircase and Adams and Styles descending staircase not seeing anyone on the staircase.)

Accomplice returns elevator to 5th floor and locks it there by 60sec post shots,

(Note: elevator travel speed approx 5 sec per floor based on WC testimony of approx 30 sec time to travel from
1st floor to 6th floor.)

You're not allowing for the 10-15 seconds to open/close the gate door. Did the elevator instantly begin to travel or was there an initial lag?

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The rifle could be temporarily hidden in the storage room or lunchroom just before Baker/Truly reach 2nd floor landing approx 85-90 sec post shots.

Who hid the 6.5 mm Carcano on the sixth floor? It would have a different caliber bullet that the 30.06 bullets fired by the "conspirators".

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2021, 02:36:59 PM »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2021, 07:54:20 AM »
The questions about the why, when and how an MC rifle with useless scope was placed on the 6th floor, are I must admit, problematic to resolve as part of a CT theory.

As for the man with rifle at the SW window per Arnold Rowland, that’s at 12:15, then he is not seen again by Rowland. So this gunman moved to the SE window by not later than 12;24 so as to have time to put the box in the window before it’s recorded in the Bronson film approx 12:25.

So it’s probable that the black man that Rowland saw in the SE window at
12:15 was BRW who leaves that window by at least not later than about 12:23.

So a heory of a shooter with semi auto rifle at SW who is the same who moves to the SE window would be supported by Norman hearing only 3 shots from that SE window and not any other more distance noise  by a second shooter at the SW window.

If the operation of the East elevator gate and slowing elevator  adds 15 secs = 75 secs total time it’s still possible that TrulyBaker arriving at 70-75 sec to the elevators at ground floor would not perceive East elevator had been in operation a few seconds prior.

There might be a ? about if the cables were visible and If any lateral swaying occurs for a few seconds after and elevator cab has traveled 3 floors upwards.






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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2021, 07:54:20 AM »

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2021, 05:51:04 PM »
The questions about the why, when and how an MC rifle with useless scope was placed on the 6th floor, are I must admit, problematic to resolve as part of a CT theory.

As for the man with rifle at the SW window per Arnold Rowland, that’s at 12:15, then he is not seen again by Rowland.

There are problems with Rowlands' credibility and the "detail" he seemed to invent. Maybe Rowland thought more detail would increase believabilty in his stories.



Arnold Rowland was 250 or more feet away from the window he claimed he could see a figure's scar and "well-combed" dark hair. Also where were the "three women" on the Underpass he claimed he saw?

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So this gunman moved to the SE window by not later than 12;24 so as to have time to put the box in the window before it’s recorded in the Bronson film approx 12:25.

Isn't Rowland scanning the upper floors at that time?

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So it’s probable that the black man that Rowland saw in the SE window at
12:15 was BRW who leaves that window by at least not later than about 12:23.

Could be BRW in the set of windows next to the Sniper's Nest. Could be Dougherty at the SW window with a piece of board and not a rifle.

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So a heory of a shooter with semi auto rifle at SW who is the same who moves to the SE window would be supported by Norman hearing only 3 shots from that SE window and not any other more distance noise  by a second shooter at the SW window.

If the operation of the East elevator gate and slowing elevator  adds 15 secs = 75 secs total time it’s still possible that TrulyBaker arriving at 70-75 sec to the elevators at ground floor would not perceive East elevator had been in operation a few seconds prior.

There might be a ? about if the cables were visible and If any lateral swaying occurs for a few seconds after and elevator cab has traveled 3 floors upwards.

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2021, 05:51:04 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2022, 03:09:29 AM »
Marina testified that she saw him practicing with it.

 BS:

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2022, 03:09:29 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2022, 03:16:27 AM »
There are problems with Rowlands' credibility and the "detail" he seemed to invent. Maybe Rowland thought more detail would increase believabilty in his stories.

The same argument could be made for Brennan.

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I noticed that his face seemed more square-set than angular, as it had appeared in the newspapers and on television. All of the people in the car were responding to the friendly crowd and waving. Kennedy was looking to his left towards those of us in Dealy Plaza. As the car came abreast of where I was sitting on the wall, Kennedy turned to wave at those on the other side of the street. The next moments have remained fresh in my mind for nearly twenty years. In one respect, the whole experience seemed to take only a few seconds. In another, it resembled slow-motion action that one sees in the movies at times. What has been recorded as taking less than ten seconds seemed like an eternity to me. I’m sure others on the scene felt the same as I. When the presidential car moved just a few feet past where I was sitting, President Kennedy looked back to our side of the street. Just at that moment the whole joy and good will of the day was shattered by the sound of a shot. It took an instant to realize that something had happened. My first instinct was to disbelieve my own ears. Nothing could have been further from my mind at that moment than that someone was trying to kill the President. My first thought was that it must have been a backfire. I’m sure many other people around me must have thought the same thing for there was no instantaneous reaction from the crowd. It was as if no one could really believe that such a thing was even possible, certainly not in Dallas.

I looked up then at the Texas Book Depository Building. What I saw made my “blood run cold.”

Poised in the corner window of the sixth floor was the same young man I had noticed several times before the motorcade arrived. There was one difference—this time he held a rifle in his hands, pointing toward the Presidential car. He steadied the rifle against the cornice and while he moved quickly, he didn’t seem to be in any kind of panic. All of this happened in the matter of a second or two. Then came the sickening sound of a second shot and I looked quickly back to the presidential car which had moved only a few feet, still not apparently aware that it was the assassin’s target.

I saw Governor John Connally reacting to being wounded and the instinctive response of his wife to try and help him. I remember thinking, “Oh my God! He’s going to kill them, he’s going to kill them all!” The immensity and horror of what I was witnessing almost overwhelmed me. I wanted to cry, I wanted to scream, but I couldn’t utter a sound. I could only watch the whole monstrous drama unfold.

Just then a woman close to me screamed in full realization of what was happening. She uttered something like, “Oh, my God!” But even as she did my eyes darted back to that solitary figure who was changing history. He was aiming again and I wanted to pray, to beg God to somehow make him miss his target. There wasn’t time to pray, not even time to think about what I was seeing but the sight became so fixed in my mind that I’ll never forget it for as long as I live. There was nothing I could do. It was a hopeless, sinking feeling. I would have gladly given my life in that moment to be able to save the President, but no one could move fast enough to shield him with his own body. Then another shot rang out.

All of this took only a few seconds. I didn’t realize at that moment that I was the only person who was actually watching the man firing the rifle. Simultaneous with the third shot, I swung my eyes back to the Presidential car which had moved on down to my left on Elm, and I saw a sight that made my whole being sink in despair. A spray of red came from around the President’s head. I knew the bullet had struck its intended target. Later, I would learn that the whole scene had taken less than ten seconds. In retrospect, it seemed like several minutes.

By the time the third shot had been fired, there was sheer pandemonium. Everyone was fully aware that the noise they were hearing was shots, not backfire. This was really happening. It was like a nightmare, only I couldn’t wake up from it. No one had to tell me what was ahead. The moment I saw the effects of the third shot, I knew that the assassin had been successful. No person could have survived that kind of wound.

Mass confusion and hysteria set in and I must admit, I was feeling it too. People were screaming. Men and women dressed in their fine suits and dresses, fell to the ground, getting them dirty, but hopefully getting out of the line of fire. At that moment, no one but me seemed to know where the shots had come from. By now uniformed policemen and plain clothes police, who I assumed were Secret Service or F.B.I. Agents came running from every direction. I jumped from the wall to try to get out of the line of fire. I never saw so many guns in my life. Most of the police were running towards the triple underpass which perhaps was a hundred feet or so ahead of the motorcade. Some were running towards an area to the right, slightly raised, which has come to be called the “Grassy Knoll.” Much speculation has been raised about whether there was another gunman there who was trying to catch the President in a cross-fire. Having witnessed the whole scene, I can say with certainty there was only one gunman present that day and all shots were fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. It is easy to understand why many thought the shots were coming from the area of the underpass as the buildings and open area combine to produce an “echo” effect.

Even as I hit the ground, my first instinct was to look back up to that man on the sixth floor. “Was he going to fire again?” I wondered. By now the motorcade was beginning to speed up and in only a couple of seconds the President’s car had disappeared under the triple underpass. To my amazement the man still stood there in the window! He didn’t appear to be rushed. There was no particular emotion visible on his face except for a slight smirk. It was a look of satisfaction, as if he had accomplished what he had set out to do. He seemed pleased that no one had realized where the shots were coming from. Then he did something that puzzled me. Very slowly and deliberately he set the rifle on its butt and just stayed there for a moment to savor what he had done, like a hunter who has “bagged his buck.” Then, with no sense of haste, he simply moved slowly away from the window until he disappeared from my line of vision.

 ::)

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2022, 03:16:27 AM »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2022, 12:24:50 AM »
If Mr Andrew Mason is correct then 3 shots were fired in about 4.8 secs.
Z195 to z313 = 118 frames = 6.4 seconds. The last two were 42 frames = 2.3 seconds apart so there was a tad more than 4 seconds - 76 frames - between the first and second.

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2022, 12:24:50 AM »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2022, 09:02:30 AM »
If the WC photo exhibits are correct then the sight picture of the SE window shooter either thru his scope or via iron sights, is obstructed to some degree between Z186 to Z210

Is it being suggested that the shooter attempted to shoot thru the tree branches?

If so, was that a shot a hit or a miss?

If the 1st shot could plausibly be at z195 and is a hit to JFKs back and thru to Gov Connally   then should not Conally be already turned by impact of that billet when the limo emerges from
Behind the Sign approx Z222?

If Z 195 is a miss, and if there there’s a shot at Z223-4 that is causing a reaction of both men , would not that rule rule out an MC rifle since 195-223= 28 frames = 28/18.5 = approx 1.5 secs.?





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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2022, 09:02:30 AM »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2022, 03:21:33 PM »
If the WC photo exhibits are correct then the sight picture of the SE window shooter either thru his scope or via iron sights, is obstructed to some degree between Z186 to Z210

Is it being suggested that the shooter attempted to shoot thru the tree branches?
That was a flawed conclusion from the flawed FBI re-enactment in May 1964.  Even their own photos showed that the full trunk and the JFK stand-in was visible at z207.

The better re-enactment done by the Secret Service in early December 1963 shows the tree as it was on November 22, assuming there was no growth in the previous two weeks or so.  It shows that the tree really never fully obstructed Oswald's view from the SN.  It also shows that JFK was visible when he was between the lamppost and Stemmons sign.


That corresponds to between z190 and z200.

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If so, was that a shot a hit or a miss?
According to all the evidence, this was the first shot and JFK reacted immediately to it by moving left, clutching his chest/neck, assuming an expressionless face ie. not smiling and waving. So it was not a miss.

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If the 1st shot could plausibly be at z195 and is a hit to JFKs back and thru to Gov Connally   then should not Conally be already turned by impact of that billet when the limo emerges from
Behind the Sign approx Z222?
According to all the evidence, it did not hit Governor Connally in the back/right armpit.  The Connally's insisted that the Governor was hit in the back on the second shot.  The trajectory at z195 is right to left at an angle of at least 13 degrees. You can see this easily in the above photo. The bullet exited under and on the left side of JFK's tie knot. JFK's midline was not right of Connally's right armpit, let alone the 5-5.5 inches right that would be required.  Also the bullet condition of CE399 does not fit the wound characteristics of the wrist wound or the damage to the clothing (particularly the french cuff of JBC's right sleeve).

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If Z 195 is a miss, and if there there’s a shot at Z223-4 that is causing a reaction of both men , would not that rule rule out an MC rifle since 195-223= 28 frames = 28/18.5 = approx 1.5 secs.?
They are both reacting to the first shot, according to all the evidence.  JBC is reacting as he said: he recognized it as a  rifle shot, feared an assassination was underway and turned to his right rear to check on JFK. That is what he does from z230-z271 before he is hit in the right armpit as he is turned right.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2022, 04:59:40 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2022, 03:21:33 PM »

Online Jerry Organ

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2022, 06:59:36 PM »

What a shame that Mason gets doing so well arguing the fundamental correctness of the Warren Commission and Lone Assassin evidence on other threads, then comes here and recklessly blows all his credibility propping up his Ash Bin Theory.

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That was a flawed conclusion from the flawed FBI re-enactment in May 1964.  Even their own photos showed that the full trunk and the JFK stand-in was visible at z207.

The better re-enactment done by the Secret Service in early December 1963 shows the tree as it was on November 22, assuming there was no growth in the previous two weeks or so.  It shows that the tree really never fully obstructed Oswald's view from the SN.

Of course Mason uses the lowest-quality muddied version of the SS reenactment film, which makes it appears that head "blobs" can be readily seen and tracked through the foliage.



Here's a better quality animation.
   

 
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It also shows that JFK was visible when he was between the lamppost and Stemmons sign.


That corresponds to between z190 and z200.

     Graphic at Left

Top Inset: Mason used to plot the limousine emerging from behind the tree when it was even closer to the top of the tree.

2nd from top: In Mason's picture, the rear bumper (which is close to the street) is pretty much on the line between the base of the lamppost and the tree in the infield.

3rd from top: Couldn't find the Mason film-capture frame uncropped, but this one shows the line from the base of the lamppost would arrive at the base of the tree.

Bottom Inset: When the rear of the limousine (ie: rear bumper) reaches the line between the lamppost and th tree, the limousine is much further along than the Z189 position shown on the map.




Mason's latest film-capture frame shows the limousine even further along than his earlier claim.



It's more like Z210 or later.

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According to all the evidence JFK reacted immediately to it by moving left, clutching his chest/neck, assuming an expressionless face ie. not smiling and waving. So it was not a miss.

Nearly all of Mason's "expressionless face" witnesses couldn't see Kennedy's face. Most were "two-shot" witnesses who described the "first shot" where Kennedy slumped as the shot before the head shot. Mary Woodward and Phil Willis--who were near-to the limousine--said the Kennedys looked around after the first shot. We see Mrs. Kennedy, and the Connallys and Agent John Ready, turn to their right beginning in the Z160s or Z170s. This about where the little girl running in the Zapruder film, Rosemary Willis, begins to slow down in order to stop a few seconds later.

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According to all the evidence, it did not hit Governor Connally in the back.  The trajectory is right to left exiting under and on the left side of JFK's tie knot. JFK's midline was not right of Connally's right armpit, let alone 4-5 inches right that would be required.

There must be something wrong with all the photos then.

 

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Also the bullet condition of CE399 does not fit the wound characteristics of the wrist wound or the damage to the clothing (particularly the french cuff of JBC's right sleeve).

The Australian team in 2004 duplicated the "pristine" condition of a Carcano bullet going through two body masses, including a "radius" bone. Their bullet actually went through two "ribs" rather than one and emerged looking like CE-399.

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They are both reacting to the first shot, according to all the evidence.  JBC is reacting as he said: he recognized it as a  rifle shot, feared an assassination was underway and tried to turn to his right rear to check on JFK. That is what he does from z230-z271 before he is hit in the right armpit as he is turned right.

Connally said he was facing forward, in the direction of the car, when he was struck. If his eyes were leading as he turned, and not staring fixed forward, by the Z220s, Connally would have looking forward, in the direction of the car. By Z227-228, his head is literally facing forward.

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2022, 06:59:36 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: 3D Modeling
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2022, 08:30:44 PM »
CTers repeatedly suggest that Oswald's scope was "useless" but how do they know that?  The rifle was placed behind some boxes after the assassination.  Maybe even dropped.  The scope was also removed to check for prints.  I don't believe there is any real basis to conclude that the scope was misaligned at the time Oswald pulled the trigger.  And even if it were, a shooter trained by the USMC to fire a rifle, who practiced with that rifle, could make an adjustment for any misalignment.   Just another CTer red herring to avoid accepting the obvious fact that Oswald used his MC rifle to assassinate JFK.

 

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