Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?


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Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2021, 04:49:53 AM »
Marjan, since that statement 20191112 Iíve come to realize that clip is indeed Darnellís and not from Underwood.
Ok good. I will fix my earlier post/comment/reply.

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2021, 04:49:53 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2021, 05:05:11 AM »
Here is a google street view of Hoffman's view of the triple underpass from the center lane of Stemmons.
The google camera here is say 7 ft above the tarmac, whereas Hoffman's eye (when he was driving his Falcon) would have been only say 3 ft 10 inches above the tarmac.
On the other hand, the Falcon might have been in the right-hand lane (ie next to the right-hand breakdown lane),
which would have enjoyed a better view than the view from the center lane.
And in Bell's footage we can see a car passing the Falcon, & that car is on the other side of the Falcon, ie it is in the left-hand lane or it is in the middle lane.
Hence the Falcon is in the center lane or in the right-hand lane. I think the right-hand lane.

I had to use the google view from a long way south of where i wanted.  I wanted the view from where Hoffman was when the JFK limo first exited the underpass.
This would have been when Hoffman's Falcon was directly over Main St. But the new on-ramp blocks that view.

When JFK first exited the darkness of the underpass, ie into the sunshine, Hoffman would i reckon have been able to see the limo,
at least until the limo quickly disappeared below the eastern concrete barrier of Stemmons.
Hoffman's passenger would have had a better view than Hoffman.

In Bell's footage we see that the passenger has sprung out before the Falcon has come to a complete stop.
Hence we can safely say that the passenger saw the limo, & the flashing lights, & heard the sirens.
So, the passenger won't have known about the shots, but he could see that something was cooking.

   

« Last Edit: May 27, 2022, 11:56:59 PM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 08:20:29 AM »
I saw a youtube yesterday where Groden said that the lamp poles on the northern side of Elm St had been shifted off the footpath for safety reasons.
This could be a trap if unknowingly mixing old & new photos etc for triangulating a location.



« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 08:23:39 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2021, 08:20:29 AM »


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2021, 02:13:56 AM »
Here is a giff i found on this forum -- i forget where, & who.
It shows Hoffman's Falcon in a Bell early sequence.
I could make a giff of Hoffman's Falcon stopping in Bell's much later sequence, but there are only about 4 frames, mostly blurry, not worth it.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 07:59:57 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2021, 10:46:32 PM »
I reckon that Bell took footage from 3 locations, shown by the stars.
I triangulated various features in various frames.
1. Here Bell is on a pedestal at the North Peristyle (as seen in the photo).


Your position no. 1 is slightly incorrect.  Bell was standing on the pedestal just east of the North Peristyle marked here with the small circle (although I think you have it a bit too far east):



This position allowed him to see across Elm to the front doors of the TSBD, as seen in the first part of his film (last clear frame before he stops filiming and changes position):



The pedestal is seen here on Street View (Google Maps) of Dealey Plaza.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 11:05:03 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2021, 09:12:02 PM »
Your position no. 1 is slightly incorrect.  Bell was standing on the pedestal just east of the North Peristyle marked here with the small circle (although I think you have it a bit too far east):



This position allowed him to see across Elm to the front doors of the TSBD, as seen in the first part of his film (last clear frame before he stops filiming and changes position):



The pedestal is seen here on Street View (Google Maps) of Dealey Plaza.

Yes u are correct. Triangulation shows that Bell was on the eastern part of the pedestal wall.
Hmmm -- so, he could easily get to pozzy 2 (or a bit west of 2) by jumping down & going south then west then north, rather than jumping down & going west to the barrier & then jumping over the barrier & down onto the garden bed.


« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 10:20:44 PM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2021, 09:12:02 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2021, 04:05:40 PM »
Yes u are correct. Triangulation shows that Bell was on the eastern part of the pedestal wall.
Hmmm -- so, he could easily get to pozzy 2 (or a bit west of 2) by jumping down & going south then west then north, rather than jumping down & going west to the barrier & then jumping over the barrier & down onto the garden bed.


Bell told Richard Trask (Pictures of the Pain, p. 264) that his view of the President's car was blocked by a tree so, he said, "I jumped down from the thing that I was on and ran around to the end of it so that I could get a better picture. That's when the shots were fired, when I was down. Probably not more than 5 to 10 seconds."  Trask writes (p. 267): "Just after the shots had been fired and upon reaching the end of the peristyle, Bell immediately began filming."

I put the position of the President's car in the last frame of Bell's film before he moves off the pedestal to be about half a car length (10 zframes) before the position of the car seen in Zapruder's frame 133. The position of the car when he resumes filming is about frame z435.  The time between those positions is about 312 zframes or about 17 seconds.  It is not clear whether Bell was estimating the time he was down between film segments or the duration of the shots. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 09:43:22 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2021, 07:33:05 AM »
Bell told Richard Trask (Pictures of the Pain, p. 264) that his view of the President's car was blocked by a tree so, he said, "I jumped down from the thing that I was on and ran around to the end of it so that I could get a better picture. That's when the shots were fired, when I was down. Probably not more than 5 to 10 seconds."  Trask writes (p. 267): "Just after the shots had been fired and upon reaching the end of the peristyle, Bell immediately began filming."

I put the position of the President's car in the last frame of Bell's film before he moves off the pedestal to be about half a car length (10 zframes) before the position of the car seen in Zapruder's frame 133. The position of the car when he resumes filming is about frame z435.  The time between those positions is about 312 zframes or about 17 seconds.  It is not clear whether Bell was estimating the time he was down between film segments or the duration of the shots.
I reckon that Bell's last frame was at Z095 to Z103, based on the vizible rear of the JFK limo in that frame being just past the wall of the pool.
As can be seen in my drawing the JFK limo in Bell's last frame is a half length short of where it was at Oswald's first shot at Z113 Ė Oswald shot when JFK was in line with the overhead signal arm (viewed from Oswald's window).
If the limo takes say 10 Z-frames to go a half  limo length then that makes it Z103.
And at Z113 the limo was one limo length short of where it was at Z133 (based on a limo speed of 20 ft in 20 frames).
But if the limo was going slower, then Oswald's shot-1 might have been at say Z110, & the JFK limo at Bell's last frame of that sequence might have been at say Z095.
So, i reckon that the JFK limo at Bell's last frame is 1.5 limo lengths short of Z133. U reckon 0.5 L short.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2021, 08:09:25 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2021, 07:33:05 AM »


 

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