Author Topic: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?  (Read 1752 times)

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« on: September 26, 2021, 01:33:38 AM »
I have been revisiting Mark Bell's footage of Dealey Plaza (i had looked at it in early 2021).
I find that what we see on youtube is mostly a copy of a copy (dark)(blurry).
The sprocket areas are usually missing. Central areas are sometimes cropped for no good reason.
The good quality snippets (& which usually include the sprockets), if u can find them (on youtube), have a lot of footage missing.

The original Bell footage is kept at the Sixth Floor Museum, but the Museum donít provide an on-line version (they usually provide small grainy blurry dark far-away nearly useless free versions with user non-friendly steering on-line).
And i think that they donít even include the Bell footage in their collection listing.
I think that the Bells have retained the rights.
But apparently the Museum do allow viewing (pencil & paper only).
Has anyone here had a good look?

Hence i donít know for sure what the length of Bell's overall footage is or isnít.
I donít know whether we can see Bell's full footage on youtube (albeit in bits n pieces of mainly krappy quality)?

Robin Unger's gallery has some nice sprockety frames of the grassy knoll bits of Bell's footage.
This includes the action tween the triple overpass & the railway carpark (which is what i needed)(it shows Hoffman's Falcon stopping).

But Robin's gallery hi quality frames of the action at the triple overpass have been cropped & dont show the action on top of the triple overpass, & dont include the sprocket area.
There are a couple of hi quality snippets of the action on top of the overpass.
There are 4 full frames showing the sprocket area & the action under & over, but these 4 frames are grainy & darkish, not hi quality, no good for magnification.
I had to get my own screenprints of available youtube footage, & some of these are grainy & darkish too, but some are very good.

Just saying. More later.

I am interested in Bell's footage koz it shows Officer Murphy's movements on the Stemmons Overpass. Bell shows him on the eastern side of Stemmons (while JFK passed under him where Elms St becomes the on-ramp to Stemmons), & then Bell shows him on the western side of Stemmons (watching the back of Queen Mary & the JFK limo disappear towards Stemmons).
And it shows Hoffman's northbound falcon coming to a stop on Stemmons just north of Murphy, while Murphy is at the western side of Stemmons, ie well after JFK & Queen Mary had already passed.
The exact pozzy of Bell during filming might help to time & place Murphy & Falcon more accurately, which might or might not be important.
By the time that Hoffman got out of his Falcon JFK was already on Stemmons.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 04:10:26 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 05:45:11 AM »
I reckon that Bell took footage from 3 locations, shown by the stars.
I triangulated various features in various frames.
1. Here Bell is on a pedestal at the North Peristyle (as seen in the photo). [edit][see reply #13][bell was actually on the eastern end of the pedestal wall]
2. Bell jumps down, & then climbs down onto the raised garden bed to (2).
Bell isnít seen at (2) in Bronson's photo or film koz Bell is late, or praps he is hidden by the peristyle.
I doubt that Bell's pozzy (2) was in the peristyle. I prefer that he was down in the garden.
3. Bell crosses to the south of Main St.
In the Daniel footage (Robin Unger gallery Daniel 47/180) we can briefly see someone who is too far south (right) to be Bell, & too near to be Bell, & too soon to be Bell.
And the area in the garden bed is very dark, possibly shaded by a tree, hence Bell could be there but not vizible.

Bell's footage has lots of stops/starts, & lots of blurred fast panning, & times when he changes lens.
And its all made more confusing koz i think that some youtubes have mixed up the sequences.

After Bell crosses to the south of Main St, (i think) we can see Bell in Underwood's footage (it has been said that it is not Darnell's footage) [edit 1Oct2021][James advises that the footage is probly Darnell] taken a long time after Bell has stopped filming at (3).
Bell is one of the 2 figures Ė i think he is the figure on the left, nearer Main St.
So, Bell hung around for a while.
Hmmmm -- i have changed my mind -- i think Bell is the figure on the right -- the figure on the left might be the big guy that was up on the pedestal with Bell at (1).

James Hackerott.
I was looking for a film clip taken from the top of the knoll four to five minutes after the assassination. Some researchers assign it to Darnell, but it was not in Darnell, or Couch either. I'm thinking it probably was filmed by Jim Underwood after he filmed and followed the crowd climbing the knoll steps.

[edit 1Oct2021][James advises that the footage is probly Darnell]

4. Later, Bell took some footage of Dealey Plaza from his workplace (an upper floor of the postal building south of Commerce St)(not shown here).









« Last Edit: October 31, 2021, 08:16:31 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 10:55:15 PM »
In this printscreen that i made of a youtube of the Bell footage
 we can see the top say 30 inches of Officer Murphy
(standing on the eastern side of the Stemmons overpass)(hi up on his 3-wheeler).
Our view of him is mostly blocked by the overhead signs.
The JFK limo will pass under him in about 10 sec as it enters the Stemmons on-ramp.
We know its Murphy koz that dark lump duznt appear in early frames, & is seen in later frames.
Murphy appears to be very high up. I am fairly certain that there aint any high curb for him to stand on.
I suspect that he heard the shooting & sirens & he stood high up on his 3-wheeler.

Murphy heard Oswald's shot-1 at 0.8 sec after Z113, then Oswald's shot-2 5.7 sec later at Z218, then Hickey's shots-123456 5.0 sec later at Z313.
It calculates to 5.2 sec but i had to deduct 0.2 sec koz of the diff in travel times for the sound of shots by Oswald who is further away than Hickey.
Murphy wasn't visible in Bell's footage when JFK's limo was half in shade entering the triple underpass at Z468.
And then Murphy was fully up & visible at Z470 when the limo was 3/4 in shade.
Z313 to Z468 is 55 frames ie 3.0 sec, hence Murphy reacted to the final shots in 2.5 sec (allowing 0.5 sec for the speed of sound).
Yes, Murphy didnt react to ”swald's shots, but Hickey's auto burst finally did the trick.

We can see say 2.5 ft of Murphy over the signage, & the signage is 61 yd away from him, which is 1/5th
of the distance to Bell (308 yd), hence that 2.5 ft gains him say 12.5 ft of extra vertical vision at Bell, but Bell is standing in the peristyle, or in the garden bed in front of the peristyle,
& that 12.5 ft has to be measured down from the level of Bell's camera.




Actually, Robin Unger's gallery of Bell's footage has 56/208 which shows Murphy high up over the signage.
In my other thread i show that one of Robin's frames shows that later Murphy moves to the western barrier after JFK & Co have passed.


Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2021, 01:42:29 AM »
A comparison of the height of Bell's camera in the Bell frames versus today's google street view i think suggests that Bell
was not standing in the peristyle, more likely he was standing lower, eg in the garden bed below the peristyle (ie having jumped down).
Standing in the garden, Bell's camera would have been level with the concrete barricade here (based on other photos that i saw),
which would be say 3 ft lower than when standing inside the barrier (not a lot of difference).









« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 12:15:31 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2021, 01:00:38 AM »
Modern google street views.





Here is nearnuff Murphy's view of Bell (over the new road signs)(old signs would have been similar height) when standing on the back of his 3-wheeler.
Bell is standing in the garden bed in front of the peristyle, he aint in the peristyle.
Bell could see almost a half of Murphy, while Murphy was standing on the back of his 3-wheeler. Murphy would have seen all of Bell.
But Bell couldnt see any part of Murphy while Murphy was standing on the tarmac. And vice versa.
That there tree wasnt  there in 1963. But a tree in Elm St near the grassy knoll was there, & it blocked Bell's view of Hoffman's Lookout.


« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 02:51:24 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2021, 02:30:58 AM »
I have been revisiting Mark Bell's footage of Dealey Plaza (i had looked at it in early 2021).

The original Bell footage is kept at the Sixth Floor Museum, but the Museum donít provide an on-line version (they usually provide small grainy blurry dark far-away nearly useless free versions with user non-friendly steering on-line).
And i think that they donít even include the Bell footage in their collection listing.
I think that the Bells have retained the rights.
But apparently the Museum do allow viewing (pencil & paper only).
Has anyone here had a good look?
I had very limited time to view the museumís Bell video, specifically looking for one detail in the intersprocket area (a request of former member.) I did make a mental note that the intersprocket images only penetrated about one half the width of the sprocket holes compared with Robin Ungerís frames Ė taken from the Lost Bullet-I think.

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2021, 02:35:42 AM »

After Bell crosses to the south of Main St, (i think) we can see Bell in Underwood's footage (it has been said that it is not Darnell's footage) taken a long time after Bell has stopped filming at (3).
Bell is one of the 2 figures Ė i think he is the figure on the left, nearer Main St.
So, Bell hung around for a while.
Hmmmm -- i have changed my mind -- i think Bell is the figure on the right -- the figure on the left might be the big guy that was up on the pedestal with Bell at (1).

James Hackerott.
I was looking for a film clip taken from the top of the knoll four to five minutes after the assassination. Some researchers assign it to Darnell, but it was not in Darnell, or Couch either. I'm thinking it probably was filmed by Jim Underwood after he filmed and followed the crowd climbing the knoll steps.

Marjan, since that statement 20191112 Iíve come to realize that clip is indeed Darnellís and not from Underwood.

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2021, 04:47:05 AM »
I had very limited time to view the museumís Bell video, specifically looking for one detail in the intersprocket area (a request of former member.) I did make a mental note that the intersprocket images only penetrated about one half the width of the sprocket holes compared with Robin Ungerís frames Ė taken from the Lost Bullet-I think.
ThreeDFeatureGuy has the best footage of the action under & over the triple underpass, but some footage is missing.
I used that footage to find Murphy sitting up on his 3-wheeler.
And i used Robin's frames to find Murphy at the eastern barrier -- seen in 1 frame only -- lucky.
And i used Robin's frames to see the gawker sitting on the eastern barrier, about 21 yd from Hoffman's Lookout.
And i used ThreeDFeatureGuy to see Hoffman's Falcon early on -- & Robin's frames to see the Falcon later on.

I wonder whether someone has taken a hi quality scan of each of Bell's frames?
Its strange that the Museum's DVD has some of the sprocket area missing.
Murphy in Robin's frame is deep in the sprocket area -- lucky.

Anyhow, no matter how hi quality the frames, there would be no way of proving that the Falcon was Hoffman's.
Unless Hoffman had a pix of his Falcon in one of his books. In which case if the Falcon had white walls, &/or a 2-tone color scheme then it might prove.
My other thread shows a non-standard white-walled 2-tone Falcon.

 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2886.10.html

The Falcon in Bell's footage is i reckon Hoffman's. And koz Hoffman stopped short of the end of the queues of cars n trucks i reckon that he didnt know much about the 6 or so cops on duty under the railway overpass (koz his view was blocked by vans & trucks.
Hence that is why he says (in 1967) that he tried to get Officer Brown's attention -- he had seen Brown up on the overpass -- or praps Officer Brown was still on the railway overpass when Hoffman passed under him, but the others had already vamoosed -- or he simply read a report that said that Brown (& 1 other cop) was up there.

If Hoffman was parked just north of the railway (like he said), & if he drove away within minutes, then he would have had to walk past the 6 cops, & he would have seen & remembered them, & he would have included them in his silly made-up stories (june 1967)(march 1977).
One version of his story(s) is that he parked in the left breakdown lane, tween Hoffman's Lookout & the railway.
No, he parked/stopped in one of the 3 middle lanes (as seen in Bell's footage) -- well short of the blocked queues of cars n trucks.
And he didnt get going again for about 15 minutes, just like everyone else.
And in the meantime he had seen the commotion in the railway carpark.
And he had seen people near the western side of the TSBD.
But the only view he ever had of JFK & Hickey's AR15 was after they had passed & were a long way north near or past the railway.

He said that he drove around to the railway carparks, & drove around the carparks, looking for the tosser or tossee. I dont think so.
But he might have driven to near Dealey Plaza.
The traffic congestion around Dealey Plaza would have eased by the time he got there (say 20 minutes after the shots).
In my other thread there is a pix of a Falcon parked amongst the police cars in Elm St extension, in front of the TSBD.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 01:54:19 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2021, 04:49:53 AM »
Marjan, since that statement 20191112 Iíve come to realize that clip is indeed Darnellís and not from Underwood.
Ok good. I will fix my earlier post/comment/reply.

Online Marjan Rynkiewicz

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Re: Mark Bell Mark Bell -- where were thou?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2021, 05:05:11 AM »
Here is a google street view of Hoffman's view of the triple underpass from the center lane of Stemmons.
The google camera here is say 7 ft above the tarmac, whereas Hoffman's eye (when he was driving his Falcon) would have been only say 3 ft 10 inches above the tarmac.
On the other hand, the Falcon might have been in the right-hand lane (ie next to the right-hand breakdown lane),
which would have enjoyed a better view than the view from the center lane.
And in Bell's footage we can see a car passing the Falcon, & that car is on the other side of the Falcon, ie it is in the left-hand lane or it is in the middle lane.
Hence the Falcon is in the center lane lane or in the right-hand lane. I think the right-hand lane.

I had to use the google view from a long way south of where i wanted.  I wanted the view from where Hoffman was when the JFK limo first exited the underpass.
This would have been when Hoffman's Falcon was directly over Main St. But the new on-ramp blocks that view.

When JFK first exited the darkness of the underpass, ie into the sunshine, Hoffman would i reckon have been able to see the limo,
at least until the limo quickly disappeared below the eastern concrete barrier of Stemmons.
Hoffman's passenger would have had a better view than Hoffman.

In Bell's footage we see that the passenger has sprung out before the Falcon has come to a complete stop.
Hence we can safely say that the passenger saw the limo, & the flashing lights, & heard the sirens.
So, the passenger won't have known about the shots, but he could see that something was cooking.

   

« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 06:06:37 AM by Marjan Rynkiewicz »

 

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