Author Topic: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?  (Read 595 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2021, 10:52:32 PM »


Wise said the Tramp reports were "dummy sheets" (arrest forms used for another purpose) and that only those booked were thumb-printed. The Tramps weren't arrested but were detained all weekend in case of questioning. "right after JFK was shot" fits in pretty good with the estimate of one hour after the assassination. The police activity in and around Dealey Plaza didn't stop at 12:30.

Still photographers were all over the area during the afternoon. Rather than capture the arrest of two sets of tramps, two photographers saw the one and only set of tramps.

    "The officer photographed with the three tramps says they were released
     THE SAME DAY & possibly just an hour or so after being taken to Decker's."

Wise says (20 years on) he thought he had been told that by a deputy (who probably didn't know himself and had lots of JFK witnesses to attend to). The three tramps were not held at Decker's; they were taken to the Police Department.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 12:48:56 AM by Jerry Organ »

Online Gerry Down

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2021, 02:42:19 AM »
The Tramps weren't arrested but were detained all weekend in case of questioning.

I'm not sure that would be legal.

Plus they'd miss their train  :D
« Last Edit: September 03, 2021, 03:26:29 AM by Gerry Down »

Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2021, 03:29:17 AM »
I'm not sure that would be legal.
It probably isn't, but not necessarily for the reason you think. As far as law enforcement is concerned, railroads are under Federal, not state, jurisdiction. That's why the railroads have their own Federally-chartered police forces. In the normal order of things, I doubt that the DPD had any business nabbing anyone in the Katy yard. Of course, 11/22/63 wasn't exactly a normal day.

Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2021, 05:31:16 AM »
Where's Fred gone?

How comes he's not produced the evidence of Doyle saying he is the smallest tramp in the photos?


Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2021, 12:56:41 AM »
“I wrote this book to expose the full truth about Jim Garrison and the danger of conspiracy thinking. Several authors have tried to rehabilitate Garrison, and I wanted to use primary documents to show just how deluded he was.”

I've been reading your website Fred. I had a look to see what else you are utterly convinced are facts about the assassination of JFK. I'm most fascinated by the three tramp photos, so I've almost gobbled up every little detail I can find. I'm trying to figure out who those people in the photos are. Also, what they were doing actually on the day. You know, trying to picture what those tramps would be really like in real life (I know all we have are 7 photos).

For instance, the tallest tramp, some say is Charles Harrelson. I picture in my mind why he's dressed like a scruffy sort of looking guy, how he got to be a tramp, a hobo. His outfit, it looks contrived. His hair though kinda longish, isn't really all that wild and unlike what most guys hair was back then when they didn't try. The thing that sticks out the most to me are his clothes, the look contrived, to me. Like someone went and picked some random outfit for a guy they knew was 6'2" and over 200lbs. It's like they got his outfit from a wardrobe dept. So what would a fit, and tall looking guy, someone with obviously a lot of swagger (remember the picture where the tallest tramp is smirking just after the so-called Lansdale character passes by)



Smirking guy just strolling along without a care in the world (btw I'd say tallest tramp is late 20's/early 30's). Surely one of those arresting officers explained to the three tramps ''president Kennedy has just been shot in the head and as you are hiding in the train carriages not far from where several witnesses claimed to see a shooter, you are now being arrested as suspects for his murder''. Am I wrong to think these cops might have just hit the bloody jackpot and possibly just solved who shot JFK? Because how were those arresting cops to know that one, or all, these 'tramps' were not the assassin?

Surely the Tramp's were arrested on the assumption they'd committed a crime? Surely those 3 individuals were warned they might be in some serious spombleprofglidnoctobuns if they haven't got their story straight? I'm failing to not see in my mind very motivated bunch of police officers stumbling across three suspicious looking characters hiding in a box car just behind the grassy knoll in the railway yard literary hundreds of feet away from where JFK's brains just got blown out. These cops would have been all over these guys. Making sure they'd got every single detail written down and kept to solve the most famous murder case in U.S history! Heroes for life! Eternity!

The reason I know they would be busy trying to solve the murder mystery at this point is: Oswald hasn't been arrested at this point. Word hasn't got to these arresting officers.

Lets say it's possibly an hour after the murder? Well Wise knew JFK was possibly dead, because he stated in 1992 (full document below)



So we know officer Wise is already thinking about the assassination of character he'll face if these suspects escape from his custody, right? that and how his bank balance is going to swell. BTW Wise admitted he was friendly with Jack Ruby before becoming a cop. That he regularly danced at Ruby's night club with. The same cop who was friends with Ruby was there when Ruby shot Oswald dead. Yes he was also in the basement. And guess what? Wise was then sent to Parkland to guard Oswald. Yeah weird innit! He was everywhere, but yet nowhere. When he escorted the three tramps across dealey plaza he was so sure they weren't potential dangerous murderers (of the president of the United States) or why else did he let them all walk to Decker's without handcuffs. Yeah yeah there's a lot of pictures of people arrested that day not being handcuffed. But these guys were seen running from the back of the fence area onto the train tracks and getting into carriage. How comes when Wise was asked by the HSCA he never gave as much detail about the three tramps as he did in the 1992 interviews with the FBI? Wise knew something big was coming (Stone's movie) and the three tramps were going to be several central characters paraded on the big screen to appear as 'the conspirators'. Wise admitted to the HSCA the last time he saw the piece of paper with the three tramps names written on it was in 1966. That was the last time he recollected their names. It wasn't until that Doyle tv character appeared on some tv show and the three tramps names scrolled along at the bottom of the screen he remembered all of their names. Hallelujah



So this takes me back to the tallest tramp swaggering around dealey plaza like his shiit don't stink. Where the hell did he get the confidence to feel so safe and secure?

What type of person could feel very secure and smirk for the cameras in probably the most stressful moments of your entire life?

A lot of people say that smirk is kinda reminiscent of Woody's old man smirking during the judge John Wood trial.



I think the tall Tramp (I actually sub-consciously typed Trump lol and had to delete it) he smirks because he knows soon as his ass gets through Decker's doors he on the way to walking back out again without anyone EVER! really knowing the identity (at least officially). It's like the tallest tramp knows he's got the people covering his ass. People with the expertise to produce cover-stories and make them stick. He's protected by a world of deniability? Worst case scenario, he'll up and die, and get posted to some place in south America with a few hundred K

It turns out the tallest tramp has every reason to feel confident nothing is going to happen to him in the future. Marvin Wise admitted in 1992 that the three tramps he arrested and escorted across dealey plaza were released, on the same day they were detained! But yet we're supposed to believe some character called Doyle is the smallest tramp.  He admits to being released some 2 or three days later. The arrest sheet with his name on says the 24th November. So how can he be the cop arrested by Wise & co?

Wise says the three tramps were released almost immediately. Released on the afternoon of the assassination.

His FBI statement is there to read.



The tramps were released on the day of the assassination. Facts. Or is the cop lying?! Or senile!?

Were there more than one group of tramps arrested? possibly. A.J. Weberman claims the three tramps were being escorted through dealey plaza in the Mentesana film. I think he's right, some people are being escorted through the plaza by what looks like a cop with a white cap and several others. There's a large crowd.



I don't agree with who A.J Weberman believes are the three tramps. But I think he was right, these are possibly some of the tramps being moved from the train yard across the plaza.

The idea a group of tramps were arrested quite close to the shooting fits with what DPD discovered three tramps arrest sheets that state -- they were arrested 'right after JFK shot' below



I've seen an interview with Doyle where he says they were arrested right away and the crowd were baying for them (when I find it i'll post it). That reminds me, Where's Fred's documents to back up his assertion Doyle and other surviving tramp alive (at the time) confessed they were actually the tramps in the photos?

The area around the TSBDB was roped off. The were no great crowds of people in the three tramp photos. It was a very controlled situation to which they were walking from behind the grassy knoll area. There was a very select group of people there. Possibly all of them on the same page.

You've got the 3 strangers photographed, firstly, at the trade mart.



Look at that guys poster and his flag, says ''Vote right, Vote White, Anyone but the NAACP's Kennedy's''. I think this might be some racist folks. And these three are in the shizznit location with em and captured on camera.





Could be journalists just covering the drama?

But why she always covering her friggin' face!?!?!?!



She's probably a 9/10. Why is she covering her face? very annoying! I can't find a clear shot of her face anywhere!



Dude, the way she avoids the camera is like a fricken pro!



Dude she was everywhere! like totally in all the right places! I shitt you not!



So, 1. you got her, and the two gringos she came with. 2, you got these tramps ménage à trois going on 3,  Marvin Wise wearing a very suspicious ear device, aka cotton wool, below


3a, only that bloody dark complected guy that every says is actually 'the cuban''. Or whatever the hell Jack White named him. (Jack effing White named everything in JFK folklore!) Jack created all the most amazing conspiracy theories of all times. But what I don't get is why Jack White knew there was a high possibility he knew the name of the real dark person stood with Umbrella Man. Dark skinned, dark complected man, some say (aka Jack). Dark skinned guy was obviously just throwing his arms up in the air like that in a public display of love and appreciation. He was so into his fandom of the man that was in the process of being shot at, tunnel vision, somehow his senses went into denial. He sat down calmly on the curb next to Umbrella Man, and mumbled some shitt about 'them just shot the president'' or something. Or whatever Umbrella Man said he heard come out of the lips of dark skinned guy that Jack White says is a Cuban.

He's also photographed out front, not only is he with these 3 new characters, who first appeared at the trade mart, and they mooched it down to TSBD building and watched the drama going on there for a while. Got behind the ropes and was in the VIP section. From all accounts. Only the gang got themselves into the roped off section.



All the oinks had to gawp like common punter's watching tricks at the circus.

That bloody dark skinned dark complected whatever Jack White named him guy who might have been a Cuban, he bloody shows up now gawping at the circus act. Somethang is a COOKEN!



So I was in the process of lookin' at that 9/10 woman I said was all over the place. But she somehow never showed her entire face. And like a thunderbolt, a thunderbolt of inspiration from Jack White, I spotted the dark skinned dark complected guy was right in the middle of some very dodgy tramp business, and he's lucky, BECAUSE he might just be lucky and not get arrested too -- as he was acting very very suspicious = my opinion (not Jack's) -- I am open-minded to Oswald being a shooter, BTW.

So yeah I was staring at the woman in the tramps stuff photographs and I noticed there's a dark skinned person lurking over her left shoulder. To my amazement -- I am kidding -- I thought ''that looks like that dark skinned/complected guy Jack White said was Cuban''. And I actually said, to myself, ''Oh right, so he's actually not from Cuba, and he's actually from Oklahoma!'' Holy Crap!



Well, you can't really see a face, it's just blobby pixels. The an outline of a human head, possibly wearing a black cap and white/light jacket. Dark trousers, or pants - for our American viewers. And finished off with lovely shoes, I think they're boots, possibly alligator skinned, Jack White said!

But look, is this the dark skinned guy, that was stood with Umbrella Man, just a few acts earlier in this epic movie?



What is this geezer now doing out front at the TSBD with these mugs?



It's him? innit? FRED!??



What a bloody cheek this geezer got just walking out front with all this tramp stuff going on around him.

Surely they'll do sumthing to his face and make it unintelligible. Bingo!



Owned! can't identify him! suckers!

But Jack White actually knew this dark skinned guy was somewhere 'out front'. Cos I read it in his documents posted online. I just looked hard at the tramp photo's and he was right! He actually is 'out front' when he said he was, and who he said was with, also, they are there!

Did I tell you about the time Jack White sent a picture of some guy he was told was Umbrella Man. So Jack then sent the photo to Tom Wilson (the guy in The Men Who Killed Kennedy) The guy that said JFK was shot from the drain. Yeah so Jack White sends Tom Wilson a photo of someone accused of being the Umbrella Man, and Tom Wilson says ''Jack the person you say might actually being Umbrella Man comes back as being a 98.2% probability match". Well Jack's now about to tell everything to the sixth floor museum and break the case open! Not so fast!



I don't think many people know this is the picture Tom Wilson created for Jack White, using his magic computer programming skills he showed JFK was shot from the drain. And using this special magic computer software he also knew the man in the photo Jack sent him was Umbrella Man. To a 98.2% certainty!

But anyway, lets get back to the three tramps. I am interested to know why Harold, or is it Hereld, I'll call him Harold Doyle, for now. Why did this guy end up a stinky tramp drinking booze with two other charmers and running away from the fence area where several eye-witnesses claimed someone shot at JFK. How did someone like Doyle become a tramp and years later have to defend himself as being innocent and not being part of a conspiracy to shoot JFK? I don't really buy it.



So Doyle, above, he's considered by lone shooter people to be just some random tramp that got caught up in this nasty assassination business. And 20 something years later he just appears to say ''the tramps had nothing to do with it'' (that's what you meant, Fred)

This is Harold Doyle.











So how did this guy end up a drunk hobo on a train in Texas?? and mixed up in the most notorious shooting in American history!?


Did Fred Litwin interview Harold Doyle, or talk to his kids? or any family members to find out if he was actually the man in the photo's with the cops??

How comes Fred Litwin goes around making announcements on his website/blog that he's solved the three tramps identity and yet he doesn't have the proof to back it up?

Well Fred?

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2021, 06:47:41 AM »
“I wrote this book to expose the full truth about Jim Garrison and the danger of conspiracy thinking. Several authors have tried to rehabilitate Garrison, and I wanted to use primary documents to show just how deluded he was.”

I've been reading your website Fred. I had a look to see what else you are utterly convinced are facts about the assassination of JFK. I'm most fascinated by the three tramp photos, so I've almost gobbled up every little detail I can find. I'm trying to figure out who those people in the photos are. Also, what they were doing actually on the day. You know, trying to picture what those tramps would be really like in real life (I know all we have are 7 photos). ....

Did Fred Litwin interview Harold Doyle, or talk to his kids? or any family members to find out if he was actually the man in the photo's with the cops??
.....
How comes Fred Litwin goes around making announcements on his website/blog that he's solved the three tramps identity and yet he doesn't have the proof to back it up?

Well Fred?

Robert, it is a fascinating "area of study". On July 28, 2018, I posted,

Quote
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,948.msg24420.html#msg24420
....
If even the BS is rife with coincidence, what are the odds of learning anything actually new and reliably verifiable?

Quote
http://jfkfacts.org/allen-dulles-first-ceo-of-the-secret-government/#comment-842336
sgt_doom
December 24, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Seriously no offense intended, Roy, but you are falling for the endless misdirection put out there ? first those so-called tramps Harrelson, Holt, etc., next they really are tramps, and on and on.
I attempt to explain this in my fumbling way at the site below (please search on ?assassins ball? and you?ll find it ? rather lengthy, so did not want to take up too much space at Mr. Morley?s outstanding site! (with links to declassified docs, etc.)
https://web.archive.org/web/20151225102900/http://www.zerohedge.com:80/news/2015-12-21/whistleblower-exposes-exactly-how-government-spies-your-cell-phone?page=2
(Four international assassins: on the grassy knoll, turned-up collar was Moise Maschkivitzan and Lazlo the Hungarian, third tramp really was a tramp [not Hunt], and on the overpass, Jean Souetre, and in the Dal-Tex Building, most likely Lucien Conein, the CIA assassin: two Frenchmen, on Belgian Jew, and a Hungarian.)
Nothing like all the disinformation they spread!
....

I posted on the page linked in the quote box above that I was able to prove that the closest relatives of Moise Maschkivitzan, allegedly ZR/Rifle,  lived in 1963 within a mile of where Chauncey Holt claimed in his book he resided in Thousand Oaks, CA.

I've done at least a hundred comparisons using this Microsoft Azure demo website technology
since last November. I'm sharing it because it is the most sensitive and reliable of several I've tried.
It is a tool to obtain leads, reliable enough to confirm or eliminate hunches, not quite ready for trial court demo.

https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/services/cognitive-services/face/#overview







« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 07:16:53 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2021, 09:41:14 AM »
Tom, me and you are thinking alike. I shoved Doyle's mush through a facial analyzer and it also came out with some results. Sadly, I can't find his results anywhere on the program I used. But I have the guy that looks similarly to Doyle but isn't allegedly/actually him.



The person in the photo above is [unknown]. I don't know anything about it, other than someone must have posted it and said it looks like the smaller tramp and so I saved it. I cannot find the details about this person.

But anyway he matches the Doyle face pretty good using some website I found. To me it looks like the smaller Tramp more than any photos I've seen.

It was compared to this pic of the tramp below





That is a little bit hard to read, but says 81.6% match. For whatever good that does us.

I believe the pic was posted in the same context as the alleged interpen guys supposedly caught on camera, Danny Arce and co





When I saved this photo [below] it was titled Charles Rogers.



It could just be the Doyle guy.

Was the small tramp guy filmed walking past Oswald down in New Orleans

I believe Jack White noticed this



I'll tell you what, if I hadn't noticed the three tramps were released on the same day that JFK was killed, I'd have said that Doyle character is the small tramp in the photos. But their arrest sheets clearly state they were released on the 24th. Doyle person even said this on camera (2 or 3 days) he says. And the arrest sheet states they were arrested ''right after JFK shot''. But the tramps in the photos are shot (approximately is all we have) after 1pm.

It would be very interesting if anyone could locate the identity of this person. below. And also, what is the context to this person being photographed. Is it one of those dudes down in the swamps. The Interpen lot!




And if you throw that Lois Gibson (forensic and facial expert) stuff into the mix too, well it's then even cloudier.









Big claim for Fred Litwin to make - that he solved all these puzzles.
 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 09:43:03 AM by Robert Reeves »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2021, 11:32:42 AM »
Tom, me and you are thinking alike. I shoved Doyle's mush through a facial analyzer and it also came out with some results. Sadly, I can't find his results anywhere on the program I used. But I have the guy that looks similarly to Doyle but isn't allegedly/actually him. ...
....
........
Big claim for Fred Litwin to make - that he solved all these puzzles.

Robert, great minds, I guess!

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190294/


https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/285979588/


Disclosure, there was a William Abrams, b. 1915  in this tree. I created a new entry matching the obituary details
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/G8FS-64V






Are we done, AFA the old tramp, or are hold-outs claiming the FBI altered the birthdate on the arrest record?
Abrams was difficult to find on ancestrylibrary.com because until the obituary, in census and other records he went
by William, likely his actual given name. In 1910 - 1940 census records, his parents were Henry and Maggie.

I am satisfied, or I would not invest the time presenting these details...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 11:34:27 AM by Tom Scully »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Was Edgar Eugene Bradley One of the Three Tramps?
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2021, 03:05:03 AM »
Harold Dean Doyle, 8 December, 1930 - 10 September, 2008 :

https://web.archive.org/web/20080912201656/http://news.herald-dispatch.com/obituaries/


https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/kentucky/name/harold-doyle-obituary?pid=117345061
BELFRY - Harold Doyle, 77, of Pike Co, died Wed. Funeral 2pm Sun, R.E. Rogers Funeral Home. Visit after 6pm Sat. Published by Lexington Herald-Leader on Sep. 13, 2008.

Quote
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/13441-harold-doyle-passed-away/
Wim Dankbaar - Posted 12 September, 2008

He passed away yesterday September 10, 2008 in a nursing home in Williamson WV.

Wim

Harold Dean Doyle, 77 of Williamson, WV, a special part of History, departed from this earth and went to meet the Lord on September 10, 2008 at the Trinity Helathcare. He was well known for being one of the three tramps on the grassy knoll in Dallas, Texas when Pres. John F. Kennedy was assassinated, and he came face to face with Lee Harvey Oswald.

He was born on December 8, 1930 at Red Jacket, WV the son of the late Walter and Kelsy McCoy Doyle. He was also preceded in death by 2 sisters and 3 brothers.

He was a professional Hobo and a Veteran of the US Army.

Survivors include one daughter, Francine Salinas of Arizona, two sons, Manuel Doyle of Fort

Riley, Kansas and Bruce Doyle of Spokane, WA., one sister, Pat Hearblin of Pritchard, WV, special

caretaker, Kelsie Runyon of Pinsonfork, Ky. and four grandchildren.

Funeral services will be held Sunday, September 14, 2008 at 2 PM at R. E. Rogers Funeral

Home, Belfry, Ky. with Lonnie Francis officiating. Burial will follow in the Don Runyon Cemetery,

Pinsonfork, Ky. Visitation will be held after

6 PM Saturday at R. E. Rogers Funeral Home.

Doyle served five years in the military during the Korean War era.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 02:05:51 PM by Tom Scully »

 

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