Oswald: No power lunch


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Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #584 on: November 12, 2021, 03:10:08 AM »
The sergeant in the above clip is not Harkness.
In the still below, taken from the Martin film, Harkness does not have a patch on his shoulder but the sergeant in the film does have one:


In the Hughes film, you see Harkness walk across the frame wearing red shoulder tabs. Something of a contradiction, eh?

In the photos taken of DP in the aftermath of the shooting, you'll see a number of officers wearing Ike jackets. I was wondering if Harkness had one on his trike, and put it on before he and King tore west on Main. At first, I thought that might be the case. Maybe it still is. But then I noticed something about Harkness' uniform in the Hughes film. It looks like his shirt is about a half size too big for him, draping forwards over his torso. His chevrons, DPD shoulder badge, and red tabs are all riding well forwards. The tabs themselves appear to be riding the front of Harkness' trapezius rather than atop it, pointing forwards more than upwards. In that position, they may not have been  readily visible at the angle shown in the Martin film.

How many sergeants were on duty that day?
In Dealey Plaza? Only Harkness. The next closest one I know of offhand was Bellah who was on Stemmons where the Northbound on ramp from Elm merged into the freeway proper. IIRC, there were only two or three sergeants assigned to the parade route downtown.

LATER EDIT:

What's the difference between the officers in the white caps and those in the black caps?
I've heard a few different stories as to the meaning of the white hats. Most of these say that the traffic division guys wore them while out on duty. I suspect they did so to increase their visibility in traffic. After all, a great deal of their jobs involved standing in the street, and I know other police departments did the same or similar for their traffic cops for just that reason. I've also heard that the higher-ups, like Curry and the assistant chiefs, also wore the white hats. But that may only have been for ceremonial reasons.


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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #584 on: November 12, 2021, 03:10:08 AM »


Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #585 on: November 12, 2021, 03:19:24 AM »
"I also looked at the normal November assignments/org chart in Batchelor  ex. 5002. Barnett wasn't under Howard or in even in the same subdivision as Howard. Barnett was also not normally under Harkness, nor in the same group. Barnett doesn't appear to have been assigned to the 11/22 motorcade no parking group working under Howard."

Had a quick look through Batchelor's Personnel Assignment list (Ex 5002) myself and came across this:



According to this list Barnett was assigned to Traffic Division, third platoon, under sergeant Campbell. This platoon started their assignment at 3:00 PM and finished at 11:00 PM.
But we know Barnet was on assignment before 3:00 PM as he was present for the assassination at 12:30 PM. Barnett makes this clear in his WC testimony:

"We made detail around 9 o'clock. We were instructed to be at our assignments at 10. We were given our assignments, each one was given an assignment, and I was told to watch the crowd, watch for people throwing stuff from the crowd at the President's party, to keep the traffic clear, and to stop the traffic when the President came by. Then when the President came by, I heard three shots."

Barnett is at his given assignment at 10:00 PM. This means he was actually with the second platoon whose assignment was from 10:00 PM until 6:00 PM.
The sergeant of the second platoon was E B Howard.
So Howard was Barnett's sergeant that day.
Batchelor ex. 5002 is a list of the normal assignments for November, 1963. But November 22 was anything but a normal day, and required massive adjustments to the assignment roster to deploy enough men to cover the motorcade route and the Trade Mart. The assignments for Nov 22 are found in the Lawrence exhibits, and they explicitly put Barnett under Harkness.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #586 on: November 13, 2021, 08:06:28 PM »
In the Hughes film, you see Harkness walk across the frame wearing red shoulder tabs. Something of a contradiction, eh?

In the photos taken of DP in the aftermath of the shooting, you'll see a number of officers wearing Ike jackets. I was wondering if Harkness had one on his trike, and put it on before he and King tore west on Main. At first, I thought that might be the case. Maybe it still is. But then I noticed something about Harkness' uniform in the Hughes film. It looks like his shirt is about a half size too big for him, draping forwards over his torso. His chevrons, DPD shoulder badge, and red tabs are all riding well forwards. The tabs themselves appear to be riding the front of Harkness' trapezius rather than atop it, pointing forwards more than upwards. In that position, they may not have been  readily visible at the angle shown in the Martin film.

Once again Mitch I have to bow to your superior knowledge of the film record regarding this case. I have seen the Hughes film so many times and not made the connection with Harkness:



As you point out, the front of his shirt seems to slump forward, the red shoulder tabs are noticeably forward and I can see how they might not be seen in the Martin film.
I suspected he was wearing glasses in the Martin film but couldn't get a clear shot of it and thought it might just be some kind of artefact on the film. But here we can clearly see that Harkness wears glasses.
However, this takes us back to square one.
The point I was making in my earlier post was that Harkness wasn't the sergeant seen with Sawyer in front of the TSBD in the Alyea clip. You have demonstrated, beyond any doubt, that the sergeant in front of the steps is not Harkness:



So who is this sergeant?
The only clue is Barnett's testimony, that the sergeant was Howard and that they both went to the front of the TSBD, exactly where we see the sergeant in the Alyea clip.
There seems to be no other credible candidate for this sergeant.

Quote
In Dealey Plaza? Only Harkness. The next closest one I know of offhand was Bellah who was on Stemmons where the Northbound on ramp from Elm merged into the freeway proper. IIRC, there were only two or three sergeants assigned to the parade route downtown.

Bellah was a cycle cop and would have been wearing a rounded white helmet so it's not him in the Alyea clip.
It's definitely not Harkness.
It can only be Howard.

Quote
I've heard a few different stories as to the meaning of the white hats. Most of these say that the traffic division guys wore them while out on duty. I suspect they did so to increase their visibility in traffic. After all, a great deal of their jobs involved standing in the street, and I know other police departments did the same or similar for their traffic cops for just that reason. I've also heard that the higher-ups, like Curry and the assistant chiefs, also wore the white hats. But that may only have been for ceremonial reasons.

It may just be to define between Traffic and Patrol divisions.

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #586 on: November 13, 2021, 08:06:28 PM »


Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #587 on: November 15, 2021, 08:30:53 AM »
Once again Mitch I have to bow to your superior knowledge of the film record regarding this case. I have seen the Hughes film so many times and not made the connection with Harkness:



As you point out, the front of his shirt seems to slump forward, the red shoulder tabs are noticeably forward and I can see how they might not be seen in the Martin film.
I suspected he was wearing glasses in the Martin film but couldn't get a clear shot of it and thought it might just be some kind of artefact on the film. But here we can clearly see that Harkness wears glasses.
However, this takes us back to square one.
The point I was making in my earlier post was that Harkness wasn't the sergeant seen with Sawyer in front of the TSBD in the Alyea clip. You have demonstrated, beyond any doubt, that the sergeant in front of the steps is not Harkness:



So who is this sergeant?
The only clue is Barnett's testimony, that the sergeant was Howard and that they both went to the front of the TSBD, exactly where we see the sergeant in the Alyea clip.
There seems to be no other credible candidate for this sergeant.

Bellah was a cycle cop and would have been wearing a rounded white helmet so it's not him in the Alyea clip.
It's definitely not Harkness.
It can only be Howard.
Go back to the channel two radio traffic. At 12:39-12:40, Howard reports that he is at Industrial. Given the context of the motorcade, and Howard's relationship to it, Howard must be at Industrial & I-35E by the Trade Mart. At that time, Howard is told to stay at his position. It would take the Sergeant at least 5 minutes to start up his motor, make it to Dealey Plaza, shut down, dismount, and appear at the front entrance. It's just possible to get him there by 12:45, but only just, and only if he completely discarded his orders to remain on Industrial.

I don't see any other traffic involving Howard in the "official" channel two transcript. He also doesn't reappear in O'Dell's version of the channel two recording. He seems to have stayed in place for a while on Industrial, at least as far as the radio traffic can tell us.

As for other Sergeants, Simpson says he's heading towards the TSBD at 12:43, but he's in charge of the Lemon avenue stretch of the route, so he's going to be a few minutes coming. It's hard to see how he could get to the front of the TSBD by 12:45.  Campbell headed up the effort along Main between Harwood and Field. He's close enough to get to Elm and Houston relatively quickly. His second assignment WRT the motorcade is to report to the Trade Mart after the motorcade has passed by his original station, so he might have already started heading towards the TSBD even before it became the hub of attention beginning at 12:35.

Or, maybe events shown in the clip happened later that either of us have been thinking.

[The white hats] may just be to define between Traffic and Patrol divisions.
Maybe.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #588 on: November 15, 2021, 10:25:38 AM »
Once again Mitch I have to bow to your superior knowledge of the film record regarding this case. I have seen the Hughes film so many times and not made the connection with Harkness:



As you point out, the front of his shirt seems to slump forward, the red shoulder tabs are noticeably forward and I can see how they might not be seen in the Martin film.
I suspected he was wearing glasses in the Martin film but couldn't get a clear shot of it and thought it might just be some kind of artefact on the film. But here we can clearly see that Harkness wears glasses.
However, this takes us back to square one.
The point I was making in my earlier post was that Harkness wasn't the sergeant seen with Sawyer in front of the TSBD in the Alyea clip. You have demonstrated, beyond any doubt, that the sergeant in front of the steps is not Harkness:



So who is this sergeant?
The only clue is Barnett's testimony, that the sergeant was Howard and that they both went to the front of the TSBD, exactly where we see the sergeant in the Alyea clip.
There seems to be no other credible candidate for this sergeant.

Bellah was a cycle cop and would have been wearing a rounded white helmet so it's not him in the Alyea clip.
It's definitely not Harkness.
It can only be Howard.

It may just be to define between Traffic and Patrol divisions.

Harkness was 42 in 1963.

Online Robert Reeves

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #589 on: November 15, 2021, 02:35:21 PM »
White caps denote members of the Traffic division, and an Inspector rank officer. Marvin Wise testified there were either 4 inspector ranked officers at the DPD at the time of the assassination, or that 4 of them were on duty, that day, I can't remember which.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 02:36:06 PM by Robert Reeves »

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #589 on: November 15, 2021, 02:35:21 PM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #590 on: November 16, 2021, 12:04:28 AM »
White caps denote members of the Traffic division, and an Inspector rank officer. Marvin Wise testified there were either 4 inspector ranked officers at the DPD at the time of the assassination, or that 4 of them were on duty, that day, I can't remember which.

I believe it was that 4 of them were on duty because Wise said there were 3 other officers with him.

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #591 on: November 16, 2021, 01:40:09 AM »
White caps denote members of the Traffic division, and an Inspector rank officer. Marvin Wise testified there were either 4 inspector ranked officers at the DPD at the time of the assassination, or that 4 of them were on duty, that day, I can't remember which.
Browsing Batchelor Exhibit 5002, and can only find there were "Inspectors of Police" in November 1963: Sawyer, Putnam, Jr, and Kockos.

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #591 on: November 16, 2021, 01:40:09 AM »


 

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