Oswald: No power lunch

[Alan Ford]

Let's put this "light brown jacket" nonsense to bed.

This is CE151

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It is described as a "Man's light-brown cotton long-sleeved sport shirt."

This is the shirt Oswald wore to work and changed out of when he went back to the rooming house.
Baker lived in a world where everyone had their shirt tucked in and simply mistook Oswald's light brown shirt for a jacket because it wasn't tucked in:

Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

The key words being "At that particular time"---------------------i.e. the time he was facing the man.

If we continue the quotation we get this: "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"------------i.e. just before this-----------"it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side."

At this particular time, Officer Baker was not looking at his face. He saw what the man was wearing

As for his "It was kind of dim in there that particular day", it's laughable: it was not kind of dim in the lunchroom

Mr. BAKER - Well, it would be similar in color to it--I assume it was a jacket, it was hanging out. Now, I was looking at his face and I wasn't really paying any attention. After Mr. Truly said he knew him, so I didn't pay any attention to him, so I just turned and went on.

Not exactly a massive mystery.
Light brown sports shirt over a white t-shirt mistaken for a jacket because it was hanging out.

But Officer Baker is saying the 'jacket' was "similar in color" to the ARREST shirt, not the reddish-brown shirt Mr Oswald changed out of after the shooting. He's trying to be helpful in a Whaley kind of way, and he's painfully aware of what's in his affidavit. What he doesn't know is that his affidavit won't be made public until the 1990s..............

[Alan Ford]

If in doubt counting landings, just say "lunchroom".

Yep. A man walking away from the stairway is a man walking away from the stairway. A man walking away from behind a closed door into a room is a man walking away from behind a closed door into a room.

Officer Baker interrupted the descent by the rear stairs of a light-brown-jacket-wearing man, and this happened more than just one floor up. Not complicated!

Mr Truly vouched for this man as an employee. Complicated!

[Dan O'meara]

Mr O'Meara, you and I agree that Mr Bill Shelley clearly lied about his immediate post-assassination movements, yes? What independent corroboration do we have for this, our shared conclusion?

Darnell

[Dan O'meara]

The key words being "At that particular time"---------------------i.e. the time he was facing the man.

If we continue the quotation we get this: "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"------------i.e. just before this-----------"it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side."

At this particular time, Officer Baker was not looking at his face. He saw what the man was wearing

As for his "It was kind of dim in there that particular day", it's laughable: it was not kind of dim in the lunchroom

It isn't really laughable as we don't actually have a clue what the lighting situation was in the room at that time.
Were all the lights on?
We don't know.
What stands in Baker's favour on this point is that it was certainly possible it was dim as there are no windows in that room and it is completely dependent on what lights are switched on. If it was a room with windows, on a bright sunny day, it would have been more difficult to understand.

But Officer Baker is saying the 'jacket' was "similar in color" to the ARREST shirt, not the reddish-brown shirt Mr Oswald changed out of after the shooting. He's trying to be helpful in a Whaley kind of way, and he's painfully aware of what's in his affidavit. What he doesn't know is that his affidavit won't be made public until the 1990s..............

The point I was making here wasn't about the colour, it was about Baker misidentifying the shirt as a jacket because it was hanging out.

Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

There can be no argument the colour of the jacket Baker gives is light brown and CE151 is described as a light brown sports shirt.
It is not a massive leap to see how Baker could mistake a shirt for a jacket as it was hanging out.
It is also clear from Baker's testimony that the clothes he sees "Oswald" wearing in the police station are different from those he sees in the TSBD:

Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

I understand you can't have Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom but Baker's description of his clothes can't really be used to support that point.

[Walt Cakebread]

It isn't really laughable as we don't actually have a clue what the lighting situation was in the room at that time.
Were all the lights on?
We don't know.
What stands in Baker's favour on this point is that it was certainly possible it was dim as there are no windows in that room and it is completely dependent on what lights are switched on. If it was a room with windows, on a bright sunny day, it would have been more difficult to understand.

The point I was making here wasn't about the colour, it was about Baker misidentifying the shirt as a jacket because it was hanging out.

Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

There can be no argument the colour of the jacket Baker gives is light brown and CE151 is described as a light brown sports shirt.
It is not a massive leap to see how Baker could mistake a shirt for a jacket as it was hanging out.
It is also clear from Baker's testimony that the clothes he sees "Oswald" wearing in the police station are different from those he sees in the TSBD:

Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

I understand you can't have Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom but Baker's description of his clothes can't really be used to support that point.

Whoa !    I say, Whoa!.... Ya stubborn mule....   Baker was referring to the man that he spotted walking away from the stairs on one of the upper floors, when he said "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"-------"it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it ( the Khaki colored Jacket)  was hanging out to his side.

Baker's words don't make sense if you believe that he was referring to the encounter with Lee Oswald in the brightly lit lunchroom.  Baker said... "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"

If he had been referring to the lunchroom encounter with LHO,   Would that have been the only time that Baker would have noticed that the  jacket was "hanging out to his side" ( the jacket was not tucked into the waist band of his trousers) Didn't Baker say that he commanded Lee to "Come here" . and wouldn't he then have clearly seen that the garment was a jacket if it had been???

Lee was not wearing a Jacket and his shirt was a REDDISH brown color...NOT khaki.


"It was kind of dim in there ....Yes, this is true ... in the area by the elevators it was not well lit..."it was kind of dim in there", but the lunchroom was well lit.

[Dan O'meara]

Whoa !    I say, Whoa!.... Ya stubborn mule....   Baker was referring to the man that he spotted walking away from the stairs on one of the upper floors, when he said "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"-------"it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it ( the Khaki colored Jacket)  was hanging out to his side.

Baker's words don't make sense if you believe that he was referring to the encounter with Lee Oswald in the brightly lit lunchroom.  Baker said... "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"

"Whoa" yourself Walt.
Go back and read Baker's testimony. At the point you have quoted above Baker has left the stairwell and is stood in the "vestibule".
That's when he makes the reference to "Oswald" walking away from him.
It may well have been dim in the vestibule, it may have been dim in the lunchroom itself, we have no way of knowing.

If he had been referring to the lunchroom encounter with LHO,   Would that have been the only time that Baker would have noticed that the  jacket was "hanging out to his side" ( the jacket was not tucked into the waist band of his trousers) Didn't Baker say that he commanded Lee to "Come here" . and wouldn't he then have clearly seen that the garment was a jacket if it had been???

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

...his shirt was a REDDISH brown color...NOT khaki.

What makes you think that?

[Walt Cakebread]

"Whoa" yourself Walt.
Go back and read Baker's testimony. At the point you have quoted above Baker has left the stairwell and is stood in the "vestibule".
That's when he makes the reference to "Oswald" walking away from him.
It may well have been dim in the vestibule, it may have been dim in the lunchroom itself, we have no way of knowing.

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

What makes you think that?

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

Yes, that's true......BUT .... Lee was NOT wearing a light brown ( khaki) garment.....His shirt was a REDDISH BROWN  with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR..     

...his shirt was a REDDISH brown color...NOT khaki.

What makes you think that?

Lee told the interrogators who recorded his words.( took notes) See;... Bookhout report on page 622 of WR   ....Lee said that he went to his room and changed his clothes. He described the clothes "as being a reddish colored shirt, long sleeved shirt with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  and grey colored trousers.  He indicated that he put these articles of clothing in a lower drawer of his dresser."  Quote from page 622 of WR.

So not only did lee tell Fritz that he was wearing a reddish colored shirt with a button down collar, Detective Potts found that shirt in the dresser later that afternoon, which verifies that Lee changed his clothes and he was NOT wearing any khaki colored garments that day.

PS  Can someone post Potts exhibit? .....  Which is a list of the items removed from Lee's room at the roominghouse

[Alan Ford]

Darnell

There is nothing in the Darnell film that contradicts Mr Shelley's 11/22/63 affidavit account of his immediate post-assassination movements