Oswald: No power lunch

[Dan O'meara]

Whoa !    I say, Whoa!.... Ya stubborn mule....   Baker was referring to the man that he spotted walking away from the stairs on one of the upper floors, when he said "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"-------"it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it ( the Khaki colored Jacket)  was hanging out to his side.

Baker's words don't make sense if you believe that he was referring to the encounter with Lee Oswald in the brightly lit lunchroom.  Baker said... "Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me,"

"Whoa" yourself Walt.
Go back and read Baker's testimony. At the point you have quoted above Baker has left the stairwell and is stood in the "vestibule".
That's when he makes the reference to "Oswald" walking away from him.
It may well have been dim in the vestibule, it may have been dim in the lunchroom itself, we have no way of knowing.

If he had been referring to the lunchroom encounter with LHO,   Would that have been the only time that Baker would have noticed that the  jacket was "hanging out to his side" ( the jacket was not tucked into the waist band of his trousers) Didn't Baker say that he commanded Lee to "Come here" . and wouldn't he then have clearly seen that the garment was a jacket if it had been???

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

...his shirt was a REDDISH brown color...NOT khaki.

What makes you think that?

[Walt Cakebread]

"Whoa" yourself Walt.
Go back and read Baker's testimony. At the point you have quoted above Baker has left the stairwell and is stood in the "vestibule".
That's when he makes the reference to "Oswald" walking away from him.
It may well have been dim in the vestibule, it may have been dim in the lunchroom itself, we have no way of knowing.

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

What makes you think that?

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

Yes, that's true......BUT .... Lee was NOT wearing a light brown ( khaki) garment.....His shirt was a REDDISH BROWN  with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR..     

...his shirt was a REDDISH brown color...NOT khaki.

What makes you think that?

Lee told the interrogators who recorded his words.( took notes) See;... Bookhout report on page 622 of WR   ....Lee said that he went to his room and changed his clothes. He described the clothes "as being a reddish colored shirt, long sleeved shirt with a BUTTON DOWN COLLAR  and grey colored trousers.  He indicated that he put these articles of clothing in a lower drawer of his dresser."  Quote from page 622 of WR.

So not only did lee tell Fritz that he was wearing a reddish colored shirt with a button down collar, Detective Potts found that shirt in the dresser later that afternoon, which verifies that Lee changed his clothes and he was NOT wearing any khaki colored garments that day.

PS  Can someone post Potts exhibit? .....  Which is a list of the items removed from Lee's room at the roominghouse

[Alan Ford]

Darnell

There is nothing in the Darnell film that contradicts Mr Shelley's 11/22/63 affidavit account of his immediate post-assassination movements

[Walt Cakebread]

"Whoa" yourself Walt.
Go back and read Baker's testimony. At the point you have quoted above Baker has left the stairwell and is stood in the "vestibule".
That's when he makes the reference to "Oswald" walking away from him.
It may well have been dim in the vestibule, it may have been dim in the lunchroom itself, we have no way of knowing.

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.

Mistaking a light brown sports shirt hanging loose for a light brown jacket is no biggie.

What makes you think that?

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

This is a very weak reply, Dan....   We both know that a persons vision isn't like a photograph which has edges

A person may be focused on something in their field of vision but the eye still sees  other things in the field.....thus even if Baker was looking at Lee's face...he would also have seen the upper garment that he was wearing.....

[Alan Ford]

It isn't really laughable as we don't actually have a clue what the lighting situation was in the room at that time.
Were all the lights on?

All the lights??

We don't know.
What stands in Baker's favour on this point is that it was certainly possible it was dim as there are no windows in that room and it is completely dependent on what lights are switched on. If it was a room with windows, on a bright sunny day, it would have been more difficult to understand.

You can't seriously be suggesting that Officer Baker and Mr Truly saw Mr Oswald in a lunchroom where the ceiling light was switched off--------i.e. a dark lunchroom?

The point I was making here wasn't about the colour, it was about Baker misidentifying the shirt as a jacket because it was hanging out.

Officer Baker is making a point about the color: he tries to resolve the color discrepancy between "light brown jacket" and CE150 by inventing "dim" lighting conditions in the lunchroom. He's being hopelessly helpful in that Whaley kinda way

Mr. BAKER - I could have mistaken it for a jacket, but to my recollection it was a little colored jacket, that is all I can say.

There can be no argument the colour of the jacket Baker gives is light brown and CE151 is described as a light brown sports shirt.

You're quite right that Mr Oswald wore the light brown shirt to work that day. However there is no good reason to believe that the "light brown jacket" Officer Baker described in his same-day affidavit had anything to do with that shirt or its owner. He encountered a man in a light brown jacket by the rear stairway on a floor higher than the second

It is not a massive leap to see how Baker could mistake a shirt for a jacket as it was hanging out.
It is also clear from Baker's testimony that the clothes he sees "Oswald" wearing in the police station are different from those he sees in the TSBD:

Mr. DULLES - Do you recall whether or not he was wearing the same clothes, did he appear to you the same when you saw him in the police station as when you saw him in the lunchroom?
Mr. BAKER - Actually just looking at him, he looked like he didn't have the same thing on.
Mr. BELIN - He looked as though he did not have the same thing on?
Mr. BAKER - He looked like he did not have the same on.

I understand you can't have Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom but Baker's description of his clothes can't really be used to support that point.

Wrong place, wrong clothing, zero connection made between man by rear stairway and man just brought in in handcuffs-------------------it's Officer Baker's own affidavit that disallows this as a lunchroom encounter with Mr Oswald.

As for having Mr Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom, I do have him there: before the P. Parade, just like he said

[Alan Ford]

Baker is very clear he was focused on the man's face:

This is a very weak reply, Dan....   We both know that a persons vision isn't like a photograph which has edges

A person may be focused on something in their field of vision but the eye still sees  other things in the field.....thus even if Baker was looking at Lee's face...he would also have seen the upper garment that he was wearing.....

If Officer Baker had not taken in what the man was wearing, he would not have given a confident clothing description: "light brown jacket". Where he was unsure about something, he said so: "on the third or fourth floor".

The affidavit-------------which was not made public until the 1990s---------------is a disaster for the lunchroom story

[Walt Cakebread]

If Officer Baker had not taken in what the man was wearing, he would not have given a confident clothing description: "light brown jacket". Where he was unsure about something, he said so: "on the third or fourth floor".

The affidavit-------------which was not made public until the 1990s---------------is a disaster for the lunchroom story

The affidavit-------------which was not made public until the 1990s--

This is the kind of thing that we have a tendency to forget.  much of the information that we now know didn't surface until decades after the fact.....   If Sylvia Meagher or Mark Lane had known some of the facts that we now know, They could probably have   flushed the Warren Report right down the toilet just Like Hosty did with the Oswald note......