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Author Topic: Oswald: No power lunch  (Read 55306 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2021, 01:30:20 AM »
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A slight lean? You clearly have never been there.

Even if you were there, the photo I posted shows you could never get even close to see what Oswald could see. Try again and repeating that you were there doesn't prove your speculation.



JohnM

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2021, 01:30:20 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2021, 01:35:32 AM »
Right on queue, whenever your team mates are struggling out you pop to give your 2 cents, and this time with an attempted diversion, nice.

JohnM

If I say 'a penny for your thoughts' and you put your two-cents worth in, who gets the extra penny? -Steven Wright
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 01:41:22 AM by Bill Chapman »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2021, 01:39:55 AM »
Even if you were there, the photo I posted shows you could never get even close to see what Oswald could see. Try again and repeating that you were there doesn't prove your speculation.



JohnM

Stop behaving as an idiot. The one speculating based on a worthless photo that proves nothing is you. But hey, what else is new?

I was at the window next to the sealed of area of the snipers nest. If anything there would have been a better view of what/who was on the sidewalk beneath the s/n window and even from there I couldn't see the sidewalk.  So your photo only shows you have a vivid imagination and and pretty nosensical narrative to defend about Oswald seeing Jarman and Norman right beneath him and guessing they went to the back of the building together, entered through the back door and walked towards the elevators (which is exactly what they did).

When you have to bend the facts and the truth to tell a false story, you've already lost the argument. You should know this by now. You been destroyed so many times before and still you do not learn..... Which is exactly why Walt is correct.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 01:47:40 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2021, 01:39:55 AM »


Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2021, 02:04:55 AM »
The only reason for Oswald to be guessing would be to somehow establish an alibi for the time of the shooting. But what would be the purpose for him to somehow concoct an alibi for where he was some 5 minutes prior to the shooting?

Why try and make up an alibi by guessing about something that happened approx 5 minutes prior to the shooting and to just name some people he "guessed" could have been there? None of it makes any sense. Even more so, because it would be utterly stupid to tell this story, if it never happened in the first place, and he had no reasonable expectation of Norman and/or Jarman confirming it.

This whole "he could have guessed it" BS goes nowhere. It has been dreamed up by LNs who can not give a plausible explanation for Norman and Jarman being were Oswald said they were at the time he said they were.

It was possible to see the area of the shipping department behind the elevators through the door opening of the Domino room. Anybody who has seen a diagram of the first floor should know this. In fact, you could see all the way to the other side of the building, where the stairs were. As we know that Norman and Jarman did in fact leave their position on Elm Street, prior to the motorcade's arrivale, and walked on Houston to the back of the building, in order to enter it and take the elevator to the 5th floor, a far more credible explanation for Oswald's statement is that he was indeed in the Domino room at around 12:25, when he saw both men enter the building and walking towards the elevators. He saw them but they just didn't see him. What was written in the various reports were not Oswald's words verbatim, but distorted recollections from people who. most likely, had no first hand knowledge of the lay out of the building.

And Chapman, if you are going to use a photo, at least try to use one from the Domino room and not the 2nd floor lunchroom!

Bravo!  Thumb1:

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2021, 02:07:49 AM »
Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs with plenty of time to spare for him to do what he said he didn't do.

Never said those witnesses exonerate Oswald. Just noting that the WC and some LN'ers try extra hard to ignore the evidence that corroborates Oswald coming downstairs around noon. Maybe he went back to the Sixth Floor by 12:25. I don't know but it's very curious that the Warren Commission chose Fritz's recollection over other evidence that supported Oswald's claim of coming downstairs for lunch while the parade was happening...

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2021, 02:07:49 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2021, 02:12:55 AM »
How did Mr Oswald know no one else had been in the Domino Room at 12:26? Could he see in there from the sixth floor?

Mr Oswald's claimed sighting of Messrs Norman and Jarman at the rear of the first floor shortly before the assassination is significant not just for whom he claims he saw (Messrs Norman and Jarman) but for whom he claims he did NOT see (anyone else). The fact that he mentions only these two tells us that he knows the rear of the first floor was completely devoid of other people at this time.

How can he know this? How can he be confident that there wasn't in fact a bunch of guys hanging out back there, any one of whom can now blow his claim to smithereens?

The answer to this question is the same as the answer to the question, 'How does he know no else was eating lunch in the Domino Room at 12:26?'

Because he was in the Domino Room at the rear of the first floor at 12:26.

 Thumb1:
« Last Edit: August 30, 2021, 02:15:01 AM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2021, 02:24:38 AM »
Never said those witnesses exonerate Oswald. Just noting that the WC and some LN'ers try extra hard to ignore the evidence that corroborates Oswald coming downstairs around noon. Maybe he went back to the Sixth Floor by 12:25. I don't know but it's very curious that the Warren Commission chose Fritz's recollection over other evidence that supported Oswald's claim of coming downstairs for lunch while the parade was happening...

Mr Oswald's claims were systematically distorted.................

-Bought a coke in the second-floor lunchroom before the motorcade ---------> Bought a coke in the second-floor lunchroom at the time of the search of the building by DPD

-Ate lunch alone in domino room but saw Hank & Junior passing through ----------> Ate lunch with Hank & Junior

-Went outside to watch P. Parade ----------> Stayed in the domino room eating lunch for P. Parade

-Was beside Mr Shelley out front for P. Parade -----------> Was with Mr Shelley out front several minutes after the shooting

-Had encounter with cop and Mr Truly at front entrance -------------> Had encounter with cop and Mr Truly in second-floor lunchroom

Thankfully, the unearthing in 2019 of the Hosty draft interrogation report lets us compare what's in it with what's in the official Bookhout report for that same first interrogation session......... and shake our heads at the sheer brazen mendacity of these 'investigating' crooks!

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2021, 02:24:38 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2021, 02:27:26 AM »
Oswald never said he saw "Norman and Jarman entered the back of the building"

Did I say he did?

    "And pray tell, how did Oswald guess, that both men, after leaving the
     front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter
     the back of the building?"

Well, I guess you didn't say Oswald mouthed it, but you somehow know he guessed it. Or you really don't know. And your question was to do with me having to come up with some rationale for "how did Oswald guess, that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building?"

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The fact is that we don't know what he said exactly as there is no verbatim record of what he said and the reports contradict eachother.

So your interpretation is no better than anyone else's.

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The only constant is that Oswald told his interrogators that, while he was in the Domino room, he saw "Junior" and another man, just prior to the shots being fired.

Where does Oswald say words to the effect "just prior to the shots being fired"? And where does he say words to the effect that he saw Norman and Jarman take the elevator?

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Low and behold, Jarman (known as Junior) and Norman did enter the back of the TSBD about five minutes prior to the assassination and Oswald could have seen them (and in my opinion did) from the Domino room.

Sure. But it's all a house of cards based entirely on your reading between the lines.

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Oswald's in the SN waiting for the President to arrive and later -- having survived arrest -- he pulls out of the hat the names of the two men who were together and were beneath his window? Also he knows Williams wasn't originally with Norman and Jarman (how did Oswald know that?).

I noticed you failed to answer my question.

What question was that?

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Very telling indeed! And where did you get from the Oswald knew Williams wasn't with Norman and Jarman? Are you making this stuff up?

Maybe I'm getting it from the same place you got Oswald knowing (since he never uttered it) this ...
  • "that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building."
  • "Norman and Jarman entered the back of the building"

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Oswald never said any of that.

Your are right. Oswald never said ...
  • "that both men, after leaving the front of the building would stay together, walk down Houston and enter the back of the building."
  • "Norman and Jarman entered the back of the building"

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All he basically said was that he saw Junior and another man while he was eating his lunch.

Oswald only needed to know that most of his coworkers said they were having their lunch early so they could out to see the President. When he concocting his alibi after being arrested, that became a good basis for assuming the Domino Room would be empty. Oswald recalls seeing or hearing Norman and Jarman together, either on the street or under the SN window. Just to add a touch of authenticity, Oswald claimed (although he had brought no lunch to work that day) to have eaten lunch with the two ...

    "In talking with him further about his location at the time the President was killed,
     he said he ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him. One
     of them was called "Junior" and the other one was a little short man whose name
     he did not know. He said he had a cheese sandwich and some fruit and that was
     the only package he had brought with him to work and denied that he had brought
     the long package described by Mr. Frazier and his sister."

    "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described
     one of them as "Junior," a colored boy, and the other was little short negro boy.
     He said his lunch consisted of cheese, fruit, and apples, and was the only package
     he had with him when he went to work."

          — Thomas J. Kelly

This doesn't sound like Oswald was anywhere near a lower floor ...

    "You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation.
     So I didn't interrupt too much, but he [Lee Oswald] said, "Send the elevator back up to me."
     Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say
     whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see
     what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started
     to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers
     that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we
     will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about." And he
     wouldn't tell what happened then."

          — Harry D. Holmes; April 2, 1964

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The available evidence tells us that if Oswald was in the Domino room, to eat his lunch, he could have seen Jarman and Norman entering the building from the back and walking towards the elevator. How does the evidence tell us this? Simply because both Jarman and Norman confirmed they were there at exactly that time that Oswald claimed he was in the Domino room. I don't believe in coincidence, do you?

So now you have Oswald collaborating some "exact time". The fact is that Oswald's "icing" in the form of him "eating lunch" with Norman and Jarman proves that he didn't see them when they were on the first floor prior to going to the fifth. Knowing Norman and Jarman had done so would have been a useful thing for Oswald to state as clearly and precisely as he could, and repeatedly so.