Author Topic: Oswald: No power lunch  (Read 5823 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2021, 06:47:51 PM »
Neither Jarman nor Norman confirmed that it was Oswald who was in the lunchroom at the time they came through to get their sandwiches: They couldn't remember.

Too bad every witness wasn't decked out with stop watches, tape recorders, photographic memories, unassailable honesty, and cameras.

Damn!!.... I wish people could comprehend what they read!!  Why are there so damned many illiterates in this forum?

READ what Jarman and Norman said.....They went into the Domino Room to retrieve their lunches at around 12:10...   Lee wasn't in the Domino Room at that Time....He told the interrogators that he was eating his lunch ALONE in the Domino room at the time the P. Parade passed by the TSBD. ( The first elements of the parade started passing with sirens wailing before the main parade)   Jarman and Norman were out in front of the TSBD from about 12:10 until 12:25....   At 12:25 they decided that it was getting too crowded in front of the TSBD, so they decided to go up to the fifth floor to watch the parade.   The passed by the Domino room at about 12:26 and Lee Oswald saw them as they passed by on their way to the west elevator to take them up to the 5th floor.  They DID NOT pass THROUGH the Domino room....  Because that room is in the NE corner and there is only one doorway..... There is no entrance and exit doors.   

What's so hard to comprehend about that ??

« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 07:03:58 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2021, 07:27:16 PM »
Correct.

Would you agree that it’s dishonest to ignore the contradictions between Fritz’s description of Oswald’s alibi compared to the description of the FBI agents who were present during the interrogation?

And how could Oswald have accurately guessed that Jarman walked through the lunch room with someone if he wasn’t there?

Sounds more like educated guessing by Oswald, according to your link:

MF Conspiracy-Freak Site
"The first floor lunch room was used by the minority employees: blacks, Mexican-Americans, a mentally handicapped man, and the depository’s one Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald. Along with unionization, the civil rights movement was a major issue for the American Communist Party in the 1960’s. Because he ate there regularly and because there were only a handful of minority employees in the Book Depository, it would have been easy for Oswald to guess who had eaten lunch there."
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:05:05 PM by Bill Chapman »

Online Jon Banks

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2021, 07:55:40 PM »


Sounds more like educated guessing by Oswald, according to your link:

MF Conspiracy-Freak Site
"The first floor lunch room was used by the minority employees: blacks, Mexican-Americans, a mentally handicapped man, and the depository’s one Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald. Along with unionization, the civil rights movement was a major issue for the American Communist Party in the 1960’s. Because he ate there regularly and because there were only a handful of minority employees in the Book Depository, it would have been easy for Oswald to guess who had eaten lunch there."

Correct but there were witnesses who saw Oswald in the Domino room around or close to noon that day.

Shelley and Givens (although Givens later changed his testimony).

William Shelley, the supervisor of the floor laying crew testified "I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12." (6WH328), as did the building's janitor Eddie Piper who said he saw Oswald "just at 12 o'clock." Bugliosi dismisses their accounts by saying that they may have seen Oswald on the first floor but it was probably earlier in the day, ignoring Piper’s statement that he had actually spoken to Oswald about eating lunch (6WH383)!

All those witnesses may have been mistaken about the time but how good was Oswald to have known that someone might corroborate his claim that he came downstairs for lunch?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 07:57:39 PM by Jon Banks »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2021, 08:09:17 PM »
Damn!!.... I wish people could comprehend what they read!!  Why are there so damned many illiterates in this forum?

READ what Jarman and Norman said.....They went into the Domino Room to retrieve their lunches at around 12:10...   Lee wasn't in the Domino Room at that Time....He told the interrogators that he was eating his lunch ALONE in the Domino room at the time the P. Parade passed by the TSBD. ( The first elements of the parade started passing with sirens wailing before the main parade)   Jarman and Norman were out in front of the TSBD from about 12:10 until 12:25....   At 12:25 they decided that it was getting too crowded in front of the TSBD, so they decided to go up to the fifth floor to watch the parade.   The passed by the Domino room at about 12:26 and Lee Oswald saw them as they passed by on their way to the west elevator to take them up to the 5th floor.  They DID NOT pass THROUGH the Domino room....  Because that room is in the NE corner and there is only one doorway..... There is no entrance and exit doors.   

What's so hard to comprehend about that ??

Mr. JARMAN - I was standing over to the right in front of the building going toward the west.
Mr. BALL - Were you on the sidewalk or curb?
Mr. JARMAN - On the sidewalk.
Mr. BALL - The sidewalk in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.

Mr. BALL - You left there, didn't you, and went some place?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - With whom?
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman and myself.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN - We went around to the back of the building up to the fifth floor
.
Mr. BALL - You say you went around. You mean you went around the building?
Mr. JARMAN - Right.
Mr. BALL - You didn't go through and cross the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN - No, sir; there was too many people standing on the stairway so we decided to go around.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2021, 08:39:29 PM »
Correct but there were witnesses who saw Oswald in the Domino room around or close to noon that day.

Shelley and Givens (although Givens later changed his testimony).

William Shelley, the supervisor of the floor laying crew testified "I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12." (6WH328), as did the building's janitor Eddie Piper who said he saw Oswald "just at 12 o'clock." Bugliosi dismisses their accounts by saying that they may have seen Oswald on the first floor but it was probably earlier in the day, ignoring Piper’s statement that he had actually spoken to Oswald about eating lunch (6WH383)!

All those witnesses may have been mistaken about the time but how good was Oswald to have known that someone might corroborate his claim that he came downstairs for lunch?

I think Oswald was 'winging it' from the get-go.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2021, 09:12:00 PM »
The only reason for Oswald to be guessing would be to somehow establish an alibi for the time of the shooting. But what would be the purpose for him to somehow concoct an alibi for where he was some 5 minutes prior to the shooting?

Why try and make up an alibi by guessing about something that happened approx 5 minutes prior to the shooting and to just name some people he "guessed" could have been there? None of it makes any sense. Even more so, because it would be utterly stupid to tell this story, if it never happened in the first place, and he had no reasonable expectation of Norman and/or Jarman confirming it.

This whole "he could have guessed it" BS goes nowhere. It has been dreamed up by LNs who can not give a plausible explanation for Norman and Jarman being were Oswald said they were at the time he said they were.

It was possible to see the area of the shipping department behind the elevators through the door opening of the Domino room. Anybody who has seen a diagram of the first floor should know this. In fact, you could see all the way to the other side of the building, where the stairs were. As we know that Norman and Jarman did in fact leave their position on Elm Street, prior to the motorcade's arrivale, and walked on Houston to the back of the building, in order to enter it and take the elevator to the 5th floor, a far more credible explanation for Oswald's statement is that he was indeed in the Domino room at around 12:25, when he saw both men enter the building and walking towards the elevators. He saw them but they just didn't see him. What was written in the various reports were not Oswald's words verbatim, but distorted recollections from people who. most likely, had no first hand knowledge of the lay out of the building.

And Chapman, if you are going to use a photo, at least try to use one from the Domino room and not the 2nd floor lunchroom!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 09:56:12 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2021, 09:21:31 PM »
In my honest opinion, the written notes by the two FBI agents who were in the room trumps Capt. Fritz’s memory.

Also, at least two people, Charles Givens and William Shelly, saw Oswald alone in the lunch room around noon on November 22. (Givens gave conflicting testimony between November 1963 and April 1964).

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs with plenty of time to spare for him to do what he said he didn't do.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2021, 09:32:50 PM »
The only reason for Oswald to be guessing would be to somehow establish an alibi for the time of the shooting. But what would be the purpose for him to somehow concoct an alibi from where he was some 5 minutes prior to the shooting?

Why try and make up an alibi by guessing about something that happened approx 5 minutes prior to the shooting and to just name some people he "guessed" could have been there? None of it makes any sense. Even more so, because it would be utterly stupid to tell this story, if it never happened in the first place, and he had no reasonable expectation of Norman and/or Jarman confirming it.

This whole "he could have guessed it" BS goes nowhere. It has been dreamed up by LNs who can not give a plausible explanation for Norman and Jarman being were Oswald said they were at the time he said they were.

It was possible to see the area of the shipping department behind the elevators through the door opening of the Domino room. Anybody who has seen a diagram of the first floor should know this. In fact, you could see all the way to the other side of the building, where the stairs were. As we know that Norman and Jarman did in fact leave their position on Elm Street, prior to the motorcade's arrivale, and walked on Houston to the back of the building, in order to enter it and take the elevator to the 5th floor, a far more credible explanation for Oswald's statement is that he was indeed in the Domino room at around 12:25, when he saw both men enter the building and walking towards the elevators. He saw them but they just didn't see him. What was written in the various reports were not Oswald's words verbatim, but distorted recollections from people who. most likely, had no first hand knowledge of the lay out of the building.

And Chapman, if you are going to use a photo, at least try to use one from the Domino room and not the 2nd floor lunchroom!

Say please

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2021, 09:50:17 PM »
Oswald have to "guess" about Jarman and Norman being together?  :D

Anyone looking out the south facade of the building would have seen them together. And they ended up arriving at the same moment just beneath the SN window

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald: No power lunch
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2021, 09:55:32 PM »
Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs with plenty of time to spare for him to do what he said he didn't do.

Being seen downstairs around noon does not preclude Oswald making it back upstairs

True... he could have gotten to the 6th floor in 5 minutes or so....

But here's the problem (which is why this story, along with Carolyn Arnold's statements, were ignored/dismissed/buried), according to witnesses there was movement in the 6th floor window at about 15 minutes prior to the shots. In other words, at 12:15.... Kinda difficult to explain if Oswald was in the Domino room at around 12:25, right? 

So, maybe he didn't do what he said he didn't do after all..... Unless you have some persuasive evidence to prove he did?

Well, do you have it?

 

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