Author Topic: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?  (Read 12755 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 07:32:52 AM »
"The man to Jackie?s right, still sitting up, is Connally, not Kennedy."

If Connally is to Jackie's right, he would be in the rear seat of the limo.

How and when did Connally get into the rear seat, and how did he get to the right side of the limo, considering that Nellie Connally testified to pulling Connally to the left side of the limo, and not allowing him to sit up when he attempted to do so?

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the coverup."

Are YOU part of the coverup?





Quote
How and when did Connally get into the rear seat,

How did you calculate that the grey haired person was in the rear seat?



JohnM

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 04:07:17 PM »
And you have some means of proving this theory of yours, of course? Or is this just another biased and bigoted opinion from a biased and bigoted fool?

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the coverup."

Are YOU part of the coverup?

 It's not a "theory", Prudhomme. The proof is in the film. The only biased, bigoted fool here is yourself.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 06:53:43 PM »
You are also one of the few commentators who dismisses Jackie picking up a piece of skull or brain from the trunk of the car. After fifty years, even Pro LN articles and TV shows report this false factoid. The most widely believed false factoid of this assassination, in my opinion.


Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 07:15:05 PM »
"I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying in the seat."

So, I have always wondered what became of this piece of JFK's skull. Anyone?


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2018, 01:50:11 PM »


Steve

Your analysis from 2003 still looks good today.

You are also one of the few commentators who dismisses Jackie picking up a piece of skull or brain from the trunk of the car. After fifty years, even Pro LN articles and TV shows report this false factoid. The most widely believed false factoid of this assassination, in my opinion.




Clint Hill:  I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, ?They?ve shot his head off;? then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out.

Steve

Your analysis from 2003 still looks good today.

You are also one of the few commentators who dismisses Jackie picking up a piece of skull or brain from the trunk of the car. After fifty years, even Pro LN articles and TV shows report this false factoid. The most widely believed false factoid of this assassination, in my opinion.

But the Zapruder film shows nothing on the trunk of the limousine. We can see the individual fingers of Jackie?s white gloved fingers, but no visible piece of skull, no visible piece of brain, on the trunk. Nor does it show Jackie even pantomiming the picking up of something.

The Zapruder film trumps an eyewitness?s memory. Jackie did not pick something up off the trunk.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2018, 03:14:46 PM »
Clint Hill:  I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, ?They?ve shot his head off;? then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out.

But the Zapruder film shows nothing on the trunk of the limousine. We can see the individual fingers of Jackie?s white gloved fingers, but no visible piece of skull, no visible piece of brain, on the trunk. Nor does it show Jackie even pantomiming the picking up of something.

The Zapruder film trumps an eyewitness?s memory. Jackie did not pick something up off the trunk.


  Hi Joe, Thank you.  I appreciate your compliment and comments. 

 I have, for some time, been trying to make one of the GIF's of Mrs. Kennedy's actions from the moment she begins to rise from the seat and actions while her upper body is on the trunk lid.  I am unsuccessful at it.  One critic argues that she did "grab" a piece of brain that landed on the trunk lid.  I find this impossible to believe because as she pulls her right hand back after tumbling onto the trunk lid and landing on her left elbow/forearm, she pushes herself back up with the same hand the people claim she has head matter in.  It just doesn't add up.  Then there's the Altgens 7 photograph which shows her right hand flat against the surface of the trunk lid.  Had she retrieved a piece of brain with that hand, certainly she would have her hand cupping what she "grabbed", not smashing it against the trunk lid.   http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2013/11/20/secret-service-
agentstillwondersifonesecondwouldhavesavedjfk/jcr:content/mainpar/textimage_2/image.adapt.990.high.clint_hill_112013.13
84978571433.jpg

 Still, die-hard doubters refuse to accept the fact that she didn't "retrieve" anything.   Then there are the words of Clint Hill. He said different things regarding the actions of Mrs. Kennedy.  He told the WC that he "thought" he saw something "come off the back..." If he thought he saw something come off the back, then what he saw and what others are saying Mrs. Kennedy did are two different things. They say "she retrieved"  he said "she reached" , the film shows differently.  It's all in what we see in the film the moment her gloved hand meets the slick surface of the trunk lid. Her hand slides out from in front of her, she lands hard on her left elbow, she pulls her right hand back towards her and lifts herself back up, turns around to look behind her, and the rest is pretty clear.
 

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2018, 07:01:25 PM »

  Hi Joe, Thank you.  I appreciate your compliment and comments. 

 I have, for some time, been trying to make one of the GIF's of Mrs. Kennedy's actions from the moment she begins to rise from the seat and actions while her upper body is on the trunk lid.  I am unsuccessful at it.  One critic argues that she did "grab" a piece of brain that landed on the trunk lid.  I find this impossible to believe because as she pulls her right hand back after tumbling onto the trunk lid and landing on her left elbow/forearm, she pushes herself back up with the same hand the people claim she has head matter in.  It just doesn't add up.  Then there's the Altgens 7 photograph which shows her right hand flat against the surface of the trunk lid.  Had she retrieved a piece of brain with that hand, certainly she would have her hand cupping what she "grabbed", not smashing it against the trunk lid.   http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/articles/2013/11/20/secret-service-
agentstillwondersifonesecondwouldhavesavedjfk/jcr:content/mainpar/textimage_2/image.adapt.990.high.clint_hill_112013.13
84978571433.jpg

 Still, die-hard doubters refuse to accept the fact that she didn't "retrieve" anything.   Then there are the words of Clint Hill. He said different things regarding the actions of Mrs. Kennedy.  He told the WC that he "thought" he saw something "come off the back..." If he thought he saw something come off the back, then what he saw and what others are saying Mrs. Kennedy did are two different things. They say "she retrieved"  he said "she reached" , the film shows differently.  It's all in what we see in the film the moment her gloved hand meets the slick surface of the trunk lid. Her hand slides out from in front of her, she lands hard on her left elbow, she pulls her right hand back towards her and lifts herself back up, turns around to look behind her, and the rest is pretty clear.

That's right, Steve.  Mrs. Kennedy begins to get up and onto the trunk before she even looks back at it.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2018, 08:20:33 PM »
That's right, Steve.  Mrs. Kennedy begins to get up and onto the trunk before she even looks back at it.


  Thumbs Up, Bill!     (I can't find the thumbs up icon, lol)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2018, 08:55:34 PM »
Clint Hill:  I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, ?They?ve shot his head off;? then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out.

But the Zapruder film shows nothing on the trunk of the limousine. We can see the individual fingers of Jackie?s white gloved fingers, but no visible piece of skull, no visible piece of brain, on the trunk. Nor does it show Jackie even pantomiming the picking up of something.

The Zapruder film trumps an eyewitness?s memory. Jackie did not pick something up off the trunk.

What makes you think that your interpretation of what's visible in the Zapruder film trumps anything?  That's some arrogance.

Offline Dillon Rankine

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 01:04:10 AM »
Clint Hill:  I jumped onto the left rear step of the Presidential automobile. Mrs. Kennedy shouted, ?They?ve shot his head off;? then turned and raised out of her seat as if she were reaching to her right rear toward the back of the car for something that had blown out.

But the Zapruder film shows nothing on the trunk of the limousine. We can see the individual fingers of Jackie?s white gloved fingers, but no visible piece of skull, no visible piece of brain, on the trunk. Nor does it show Jackie even pantomiming the picking up of something.

The Zapruder film trumps an eyewitness?s memory. Jackie did not pick something up off the trunk.

Hill specified that he witnesses Mrs. Kennedy retrieve some material which he thought to have come from president?s head wounds.

I?ll grant you that the film trumps witness recollection, but when making claims with respect to the contents of the film one should employ objective analyses and be parsimonious with the data. The reason films are better than witnesses is not simply because they are here, but rather because they can be analysed by independent experts for verification as to what the images appear to depict etc. Without such scrutiny, one is only slightly better than a witness. Indeed, the fact that the debris (whatever it was) does not appear on basic scrutiny is evidence of Nothing.

If one fails to detect such a thing as wound debris then one may not conclude that it is absent and therefore the witness wrong, but rather that there?s no evidence visible to confirm the veracity of the story and it remains unproven.

It is worth pointing out also that the proportions of the material and quality of film are essential to this analysis. What if the debris consisted entirely of neural tissue? Such might not evn be visable on the film. Minute or thin scalp fragments might also fit this category. Etc., etc.

A better point for all to consider however is that the truth about what happened on the trunk may not even be relevant. High velocity missiles shot debris everywhere. If it were as simple as follow the debris trail we wouldn?t need experts to do it.

 

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