Author Topic: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?  (Read 12756 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 12:57:27 AM »


"And as for Kennedy's shoulder look at where Kennedy's body is in relation to the top of the back seat just before the Limo disappears behind the bush."

Ok, we can see where JFK was AS Jackie was climbing out onto the trunk lid, and it seems likely that, after Jackie vacated the rear seat, JFK would have just kept slumping to the left, until he was lying completely across the rear seat.

 

JFK would have slumped over and laid completely across the rear seat with just his head, neck and torso if he was as big as Andre the Giant.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 07:17:16 AM »


Sorry, Joe but, as usual, your complete ignorance of anything mechanical is showing through.

The limo was only 78 inches wide. My GMC pickup is just a couple of inches short of being that wide and, judging from photos of the limo, its rear seat started a lot further in from the side of the limo than the rear seat of my pickup does, and the rear seat of my pickup is only 4.5 feet wide. If JFK was 1.5 feet across the hips, and his butt was not right up against the side of the limo, that leaves him less than 3 feet of rear seat to fall onto.

Not much room for Jackie when she got back into the limo.

What did she do with JFK so she could sit down??

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the coverup."

Are YOU part of the coverup?





From this picture:

** JFK was pretty far to the left, right up against the side of the door.

** Clearly, if JFK slumps to his left, he won?t cover the entire seat.
It would be possible for Jackie to get back in the seat, while perhaps lifting his head and hold his head in her lap.

Since the man to her right appears to be sitting not next to here but beyond her, that man has to be Connally. And JFK is laying down with his head in her lap. And that is the position they maintained until they got to the hospital.



It is unreasonable that Jackie would lift her husband up so he was sitting upright.

Why would she do that?

Offline Bob Prudhomme

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 07:24:28 AM »



From this picture:

** JFK was pretty far to the left, right up against the side of the door.

** Clearly, if JFK slumps to his left, he won?t cover the entire seat.
It would be possible for Jackie to get back in the seat, while perhaps lifting his head and hold his head in her lap.

Since the man to her right appears to be sitting not next to here but beyond her, that man has to be Connally. And JFK is laying down with his head in her lap. And that is the position they maintained until they got to the hospital.



It is unreasonable that Jackie would lift her husband up so he was sitting upright.

Why would she do that?

Simple. She was freaked out and in shock and she was attempting to push the gory mess that was her husband's head as far away from her as she could.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 07:29:33 AM »
You're not answering my questions, Bill.

No.

You didn't answer mine.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 07:33:01 AM »
Sorry, Joe but, as usual, your complete ignorance of anything mechanical is showing through.

The limo was only 78 inches wide. My GMC pickup is just a couple of inches short of being that wide and, judging from photos of the limo, its rear seat started a lot further in from the side of the limo than the rear seat of my pickup does, and the rear seat of my pickup is only 4.5 feet wide. If JFK was 1.5 feet across the hips, and his butt was not right up against the side of the limo, that leaves him less than 3 feet of rear seat to fall onto.

Not much room for Jackie when she got back into the limo.

What did she do with JFK so she could sit down??

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the coverup."

Are YOU part of the coverup?

You seem to be unaware that President Kennedy was wearing a back brace that day.  This most likely prevented his upper body from laying completely on the seat as he slumped to the left.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2018, 08:46:53 AM »
JFK could have easily rotated on his left butt cheek and wound up lying completely on his side on the rear seat.

Explain to us how you think the back brace could have prevented him from falling on his side.


Below is Zapruder frame 367.  This is three seconds after the head shot.  It is very clear (at least it should be) that Kennedy did not end up "completely on his side on the rear seat".  Somehow, the back brace prevented him from falling all the way over onto the seat.  Later Zapruder frames show him in the same position.  Face it, he didn't fall all the way over to his left.



Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2018, 11:58:15 PM »
If his head was on Jackie's lap on the way to Parkland, why was there not more blood on the lap of her dress?  I always thought she was kneeling in the foot well of the rear seat after getting back in the limo.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 01:39:45 AM »
By examining a single frame(Z456) certain "photo experts" claim that Kennedy was sitting up at Z456 but by examining two consecutive frames centered on Connally we can determine that Jackie is on a completely different relative lateral plane to Connally, Jackie is clearly sitting behind Connally as one would expect.





JohnM

 I was the first to discover this back in 2003 and wrote an article for John McAdams' website, after doing a cursory examination of the MPI Zapruder DVD. My article is available online at: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/looking.htm 

The person sitting up is John Connally.  I also pointed this out to Dale Myers who didn't know about it while he was working on his second animation which was shown on ABC-TV.  People will argue that its President Kennedy all they want, but facts are facts. It's Connally.

Offline Steve Barber

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 01:51:04 AM »
"And as for Kennedy's shoulder look at where Kennedy's body is in relation to the top of the back seat just before the Limo disappears behind the bush."

Ok, we can see where JFK was AS Jackie was climbing out onto the trunk lid, and it seems likely that, after Jackie vacated the rear seat, JFK would have just kept slumping to the left, until he was lying completely across the rear seat.

When Jackie returned to the rear seat, we have to assume she had nowhere to sit, as JFK was lying in her seat. Jackie seems to have gotten herself seated prior to going under the TUP, with Clint Hill clinging to the rear bumper the entire time she did so.

Do you believe Jackie moved JFK's limp body all by herself? Exactly where do you believe she moved him to?

In the two GIF's posted on this thread, which frames from the Zapruder film were used?


"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the coverup."

Are YOU part of the coverup?


 You are part of the peanut gallery.  Your personality sucks, Prudhomme!

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Who is sitting up in Zapruder @Z456?
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 02:30:44 AM »


 I was the first to discover this back in 2003 and wrote an article for John McAdams' website, after doing a cursory examination of the MPI Zapruder DVD. My article is available online at: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/looking.htm 

The person sitting up is John Connally.  I also pointed this out to Dale Myers who didn't know about it while he was working on his second animation which was shown on ABC-TV.  People will argue that its President Kennedy all they want, but facts are facts. It's Connally.


Steve

Your analysis from 2003 still looks good today.

You are also one of the few commentators who dismisses Jackie picking up a piece of skull or brain from the trunk of the car. After fifty years, even Pro LN articles and TV shows report this false factoid. The most widely believed false factoid of this assassination, in my opinion.

 

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