Author Topic: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Hypothesis  (Read 896 times)

Online Jon Banks

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2021, 06:57:21 PM »
I can't find where it's been determined the laptop was Hunter's and that nothing was done to its contents while it was out of his possession.

The computer repair shop owner is John Paul Mac Isaac, an avid Trump supporter, who sued Twitter for $500,000,000 last December. So much for their love of free speech.

Hunter literally said recently that the Laptop “may” be his.

The DEA found a second Laptop belonging to Hunter during a drug bust of a doctor in Massachusetts.

The Delaware repair shop guy’s story is weird but so far, everything he has said checks out. No one can argue that he isn’t credible or that the FBI didn’t take the Laptop into custody. He literally has a receipt from the FBI’s Baltimore office.

Granted, people SHOULD be skeptical of the NY Post and Rudy Giuliani but the Center-Left and Liberal Media’s disinterest in even reporting on the stuff that was confirmed as accurate was a bad look in terms of proving that they’re not totally biased…

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2021, 07:27:54 PM »
Hunter literally said recently that the Laptop “may” be his.

The DEA found a second Laptop belonging to Hunter during a drug bust of a doctor in Massachusetts.

The Delaware repair shop guy’s story is weird but so far, everything he has said checks out. No one can argue that he isn’t credible or that the FBI didn’t take the Laptop into custody. He literally has a receipt from the FBI’s Baltimore office.

Granted, people SHOULD be skeptical of the NY Post and Rudy Giuliani but the Center-Left and Liberal Media’s disinterest in even reporting on the stuff that was confirmed as accurate was a bad look in terms of proving that they’re not totally biased…
Yep, the story was that the mainstream media - the major outlets - refused to cover the story. And social media banned people from linking to the NY Post story. And the NY Post was banned by Twitter and Facebook from linking to their story. This nonsense that it wasn't "proven" and therefore couldn't be mentioned is absurd. By that standard half of the stories we discuss wouldn't be allowed to be mentioned. JFK assassination anyone?

The Russian collusion story wasn't proven, especially the Steele Dossier part of it. The Russian bounty story wasn't proven. And yet those weren't banned. Just until two days ago Facebook banned people from mentioning the "lab leak" theory behind the pandemic.

Something seriously wrong is going on here but it appears that if the "right" people are being silenced it's okay. It's not. Today it's them, tomorrow it's you.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 08:10:40 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2021, 07:35:16 PM »
Hunter literally said recently that the Laptop “may” be his.

That's quite a cherry-pick, for a fellow who's "on to" the media doing deceitful things.

    "Was that your laptop?" she asked.
         "For real, I don't know," Hunter replied.
    "I know. But you know that, this isn’t ..."
         "But my point is, I really don't know. The answer is, that's the truthful answer."
    "You don't know, yes or no, if the laptop was yours?"
         "I don't have any idea. No idea whether or not …"
    "So, could have been yours?"
         "Of course, certainly," Hunter said.

Quote
The DEA found a second Laptop belonging to Hunter during a drug bust of a doctor in Massachusetts.

The Delaware repair shop guy’s story is weird but so far, everything he has said checks out. No one can argue that he isn’t credible or that the FBI didn’t take the Laptop into custody. He literally has a receipt from the FBI’s Baltimore office.

Granted, people SHOULD be skeptical of the NY Post and Rudy Giuliani but the Center-Left and Liberal Media’s disinterest in even reporting on the stuff that was confirmed as accurate was a bad look in terms of proving that they’re not totally biased…

You're talking about hindsight. Last fall, all they had to work with was the Giuliani "Four Seasons" sideshow.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2021, 07:49:29 PM »
Something seriously wrong is going on here but it appears that if the "right" people are being silenced it's okay. It's not. Today it's them, tomorrow it's you.

Isn't this really about Right-Wingers wanting protection for their ongoing, increasingly-hostile demeaning comments about blacks, ethics, women and the poor?

Online Jon Banks

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2021, 09:34:17 PM »
That's quite a cherry-pick, for a fellow who's "on to" the media doing deceitful things.

    "Was that your laptop?" she asked.
         "For real, I don't know," Hunter replied.
    "I know. But you know that, this isn’t ..."
         "But my point is, I really don't know. The answer is, that's the truthful answer."
    "You don't know, yes or no, if the laptop was yours?"
         "I don't have any idea. No idea whether or not …"
    "So, could have been yours?"
         "Of course, certainly," Hunter said.

You're talking about hindsight. Last fall, all they had to work with was the Giuliani "Four Seasons" sideshow.

The Wall Street Journal and Fox News did what every other journalist could've done which was, contact people who were referenced in the emails and text massages and interview them.

They were able to independently confirm the authenticity of the data that they reported on. Although we still don't know for certain that it was from Hunter's laptop, no other explanation for how his data was obtained has been given by Biden's legal team. They never alleged that he had been Hacked or that his computer was stolen.

There's no good excuse for the rest of the Media to have ignored the story. Probably the worst example of their bias in the Trump era.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 09:35:16 PM by Jon Banks »

Online Jon Banks

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2021, 04:54:33 PM »
The former NY Times Covid reporter explains why he didn't address the Lab Leak theories until recently:

Quote
How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love the Lab-Leak Theory

"The experts all agreed that the SARS-CoV-2 virus was not a deliberate weaponization of a previously known virus and that it had no obvious signs of lab manipulation (more details below). They noted that blood sampling showed that brief “spillovers” of animal viruses into humans happen often without causing large outbreaks. Therefore, they argued, the odds were that this was another virus that got lucky, like SARS and MERS and the 2009 pandemic flu: it had dwelled long enough inside a civet or camel or pig or something to infect human-like cells, and then had hit the big city.

For about a year, that was the general wisdom among science writers. The “lab-leak theory” migrated back to the far right where it had started — championed by the folks who brought us Pizzagate, the Plandemic, Kung Flu, Q-Anon, Stop the Steal, and the January 6 Capitol invasion. It was tarred by the fact that everyone backing it seemed to hate not just Democrats and the Chinese Communist Party, but even the Chinese themselves. It spawned racist rumors like “Chinese labs sell their dead experimental animals in food markets.”


https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-lab-leak-theory-f4f88446b04d

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2021, 05:15:01 PM »
The former NY Times Covid reporter explains why he didn't address the Lab Leak theories until recently:


https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-lab-leak-theory-f4f88446b04d
I think that's called an "admission against interest."

There were all kinds of flags indicating that the investigations - including the one by WHO - were shams. Even the head of WHO, not known for challenging Beijing, said it was not sufficient. And that was months ago. It was never, as I now see it, a far fetched theory only held by Qanon crackpots.

A side story to this is that we thought that opening up China to the rest of the world, to the west, would change its internal policies. That economic liberalization would create political liberalization. That hasn't worked. Instead of changing them, it's changed us. The government - the Party really - is using this opening up to push its interests and make, force really, changes in us instead.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 06:01:33 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Jon Banks

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2021, 05:51:17 PM »
I think that's called an "admission against interest."

There were all kinds of flags indicating that the investigations - including the one by WHO - were shams. Even the head of WHO, not known for challenging Beijing, said it was not sufficient. And that was months ago. It was never, as I now see it, a far fetched theory only held by Qanon crackpots.

A side story to this is that we thought that opening up China to the rest of the world, to the west, would change its internal policies. That economic liberalization would create political liberalization. That hasn't worked. Instead of changing them, it's changed us. The government - the Party really - is using this opening up to push its interest and make changes in us instead.

The Lab Leak theory can't be ruled out until we know more about how or when the virus jumped from animals to humans. However, there's not a shred of solid evidence so far supporting that theory.

The circumstantial evidence is obvious. A lab that studies coronaviruses happens to be located where the first major outbreak happened. But despite a year and a half of Intelligence agencies and scientists looking into the virus' origins, there's no solid evidence that it escaped from a Lab. Also, history shows that where a new virus happens to be discovered isn't always where the virus originated. For example, the Spanish Flu was discovered by Spain but originated in either Kansas or Mexico. It seems plausible that Covid originated somewhere else in China before finding it's way to a major city like Wuhan. There's genetic evidence and circumstantial evidence backing the view that Wuhan isn't the first place where Covid existed. It's more a question of, was the virus brought to Wuhan and released accidentally by Virus researchers? Or did it get there via the Wet Markets where exotic wild animals are sold?

The CIA in 2020 told the Trump administration that they had no evidence that the Chinese believe it leaked from a lab. By that, I assume they mean, Chinese officials aren't saying anything privately that contradicts their claim that it didn't leak from one of their Bio-research Labs:
-----------

Anthony Ruggiero, the head of the National Security Council’s bureau tracking weapons of mass destruction, expressed frustration during one videoconference in January that the C.I.A. was unable to get behind any theory of the outbreak’s origin. C.I.A. analysts responded that they simply did not have the evidence to support any one theory with high confidence at the time, according to people familiar with the conversation.

The C.I.A.’s judgment was based in part on the fact that no signs had emerged that the Chinese government believed the outbreak came from a lab.
The Chinese government has vigorously denied that the virus leaked from a lab while pushing disinformation on its origins, including suggesting that the American military created it…

In a statement released earlier on Thursday, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said that the intelligence community “will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

Intelligence agencies, the statement said, concur “with the wide scientific consensus that the Covid-19 virus was not man-made or genetically modified.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/us/politics/trump-administration-intelligence-coronavirus-china.html

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The Intelligence community's assessments haven't changed. Biden's ODNI says they don't know when or how Covid first transmitted to humans.

There have been Lab Leaks in China in the recent past but we know about them and they all were contained (as far as we know). There's no evidence that the previous Lab Leaks of SARS led to a pandemic.

The Chinese government is very secretive most of the time so their secrecy alone shouldn't be reason to assume they know more about the origins of Covid than they've said publicly. And I agree that the Chinese government doesn't help matters by spreading their own theories about how the virus may have originated in the US. 

We can't ignore the fact that tensions between the US and China are as high as they've been since the 1970s. The Chinese likely don't believe the US is acting in good faith in the calls for more investigations.

It took 15 years or so for the Chinese to identify the source of the 2002 SARS outbreak and that outbreak had a connection to China's Wet Markets too. It could take as long or longer to find the source of the Covid-19 outbreak. Much of the research on that stuff happens in caves around remote parts of China. So while I find the Lab Leak theory to be plausible, it doesn't strike me as weird that the Chinese still don't know where the virus came from.

It's perfectly fine to speculate on the Lab Leak theory based on the circumstantial evidence. Lab leaks happen all over the world, including in the US and China. I agree that the mainstream media shouldn't have dismissed it entirely as a wacky conspiracy theory. Hopefully journalists and news editors learn lessons from this but I doubt they will...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 06:00:58 PM by Jon Banks »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2021, 07:49:03 PM »
The Lab Leak theory can't be ruled out until we know more about how or when the virus jumped from animals to humans. However, there's not a shred of solid evidence so far supporting that theory.

The circumstantial evidence is obvious. A lab that studies coronaviruses happens to be located where the first major outbreak happened. But despite a year and a half of Intelligence agencies and scientists looking into the virus' origins, there's no solid evidence that it escaped from a Lab. Also, history shows that where a new virus happens to be discovered isn't always where the virus originated. For example, the Spanish Flu was discovered by Spain but originated in either Kansas or Mexico. It seems plausible that Covid originated somewhere else in China before finding it's way to a major city like Wuhan. There's genetic evidence and circumstantial evidence backing the view that Wuhan isn't the first place where Covid existed. It's more a question of, was the virus brought to Wuhan and released accidentally by Virus researchers? Or did it get there via the Wet Markets where exotic wild animals are sold?

The CIA in 2020 told the Trump administration that they had no evidence that the Chinese believe it leaked from a lab. By that, I assume they mean, Chinese officials aren't saying anything privately that contradicts their claim that it didn't leak from one of their Bio-research Labs:
-----------

Anthony Ruggiero, the head of the National Security Council’s bureau tracking weapons of mass destruction, expressed frustration during one videoconference in January that the C.I.A. was unable to get behind any theory of the outbreak’s origin. C.I.A. analysts responded that they simply did not have the evidence to support any one theory with high confidence at the time, according to people familiar with the conversation.

The C.I.A.’s judgment was based in part on the fact that no signs had emerged that the Chinese government believed the outbreak came from a lab.
The Chinese government has vigorously denied that the virus leaked from a lab while pushing disinformation on its origins, including suggesting that the American military created it…

In a statement released earlier on Thursday, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence said that the intelligence community “will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

Intelligence agencies, the statement said, concur “with the wide scientific consensus that the Covid-19 virus was not man-made or genetically modified.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/30/us/politics/trump-administration-intelligence-coronavirus-china.html

----------

The Intelligence community's assessments haven't changed. Biden's ODNI says they don't know when or how Covid first transmitted to humans.

There have been Lab Leaks in China in the recent past but we know about them and they all were contained (as far as we know). There's no evidence that the previous Lab Leaks of SARS led to a pandemic.

The Chinese government is very secretive most of the time so their secrecy alone shouldn't be reason to assume they know more about the origins of Covid than they've said publicly. And I agree that the Chinese government doesn't help matters by spreading their own theories about how the virus may have originated in the US. 

We can't ignore the fact that tensions between the US and China are as high as they've been since the 1970s. The Chinese likely don't believe the US is acting in good faith in the calls for more investigations.

It took 15 years or so for the Chinese to identify the source of the 2002 SARS outbreak and that outbreak had a connection to China's Wet Markets too. It could take as long or longer to find the source of the Covid-19 outbreak. Much of the research on that stuff happens in caves around remote parts of China. So while I find the Lab Leak theory to be plausible, it doesn't strike me as weird that the Chinese still don't know where the virus came from.

It's perfectly fine to speculate on the Lab Leak theory based on the circumstantial evidence. Lab leaks happen all over the world, including in the US and China. I agree that the mainstream media shouldn't have dismissed it entirely as a wacky conspiracy theory. Hopefully journalists and news editors learn lessons from this but I doubt they will...
We're now running the risk of over compensating and running too quickly with the lab leak theory. And relying on, in part, the same intelligence that gave us Iraqi WMDs. We need to be as skeptical, as you say, of the lab leak theory as we should be with the natural explanation. With the exception of a few usual suspects on Fox, the media have been generally calm. But it's early.

Reportedly, from the NY Times story, there's "a raft of still-unexamined evidence that required additional computer analysis that might shed light on the mystery." Swell, just swell. We're spending over $100 billion a year for this?

As to the origins: If it didn't come from a wet market and if the Chinese have been unable to find another animal that carries the virus, then what's the origin? And where did Patient Zero contract it and how? What's the most logical explanation at this point? Yes, this is why I'm not a scientist, trained to carefully weigh things and follow the scientific method of exhausting all possibilities. Maybe it was some person who had pet bats and got if from one of them.

In any case, back to my original post about how the media may be getting into bubbles and only considering sources that re-enforce their prejudices. And one of those prejudices was its dislike and opposition to all things Trump. That's unacceptable; or should be. 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 08:14:17 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Online Jon Banks

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Re: The Media, the Virus and the "Lab Leak" Theory
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2021, 08:29:12 PM »
We're now running the risk of over compensating and running too quickly with the lab leak theory. And relying on, in part, the same intelligence that gave us Iraqi WMDs. We need to be as skeptical, as you say, of the lab leak theory as we should be with the natural explanation. With the exception of a few usual suspects on Fox, the media have been generally calm. But it's early.

Reportedly, from the NY Times story, there's "a raft of still-unexamined evidence that required additional computer analysis that might shed light on the mystery." Swell, just swell. We're spending over $100 billion a year for this?

As to the origins: If it didn't come from a wet market and if the Chinese have been unable to find another animal that carries the virus, then what's the origin? And where did Patient Zero contract it and how? What's the most logical explanation at this point? Yes, this is why I'm not a scientist, trained to carefully weigh things and follow the scientific method of exhausting all possibilities. Maybe it was some person who had pet bats and got if from one of them.

In any case, back to my original post about how the media may be getting into bubbles and only considering sources that re-enforce their prejudices. It certainly seemed to have happened here.

It happens often unfortunately.

The whole partisan Media Bubble thing became clear to me with the coverage of the Benghazi investigations. Fox News and rightwing outlets made a big deal of it while the rest of the media mostly ignored the investigations.

The coverage of the Trump-Russia stuff was another example of how the Bubbles lead to bad or misleading reporting. The Steele Dossier was given far too much coverage and there were a few big stories that were quickly debunked (ie Michael Cohen in Prague).

And I agree that some in the Media are over-correcting for the lack of coverage of the Lab Leak theory by talking about it with more frequency now even though there has been little to no new evidence since early last year.

 

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