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Author Topic: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?  (Read 3571 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 04:28:05 PM »
In 1960, in Texas, the Democrats got 50.52 % of the vote to the Republican?s 48.52 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to JFK.

Nixon was a sitting vice-president.  JFK was a relative unknown.

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In 1964, in a landslide election, Democrats got 63.32 % of the vote to the Republican?s 36.49 % of the vote, giving the election to Johnson. The large margin of victory was due to the public?s concern over Goldwater getting us into war.

You don't think the same would have been the case if JFK had lived?

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In 1968, in Texas, the Democrats got 41.14 % of the vote to the Republican?s 39.97 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to Humphrey. Many voted for Wallace.

Exactly.  Wallace got the Southern Democrat vote.

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Having Johnson on the ticket in 1960 caused many Texan?s to vote for Kennedy. They did not like the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights. But they can overcome this concern if it means they can vote for a Texan, even as only a Vice President.

Civil rights wasn't much of a thing yet in 1960.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 06:18:44 PM »
Robert Caro makes a decent case that LBJ might have been dropped from the ticket.  He is the foremost historian on LBJ so that carries some weight.  But it makes absolutely no difference in regards to the assassination since LBJ had nothing to do with it. 

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »
Why didn't LBJ ride in the same limo as JFK instead of back in the pack ?

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 08:32:03 PM »


Robert Caro makes a decent case that LBJ might have been dropped from the ticket.  He is the foremost historian on LBJ so that carries some weight.  But it makes absolutely no difference in regards to the assassination since LBJ had nothing to do with it.


Questions:

Does Robert Caro explain why Kennedy is campaigning in Texas in November in 1963 while he is planning to undo this work by dropping Johnson from the ticket?

Does Robert Caro even address this issue?

Does Robert Caro explicitly state that as of November 1963, JFK was still planning on dropping LBJ?




Regardless of how eminent a historian Robert Caro is, I can?t buy his arguments if he does not address this issue.



If JFK was considering dropping LBJ from the ticket, he must have decided not to by the time of the November 1963 trip to Texas.


Presidential candidates campaign in states that are important, that can go either way. They like to campaign in larger states, but what is even more important, they chose states that can go either way. That is why candidates largely avoid campaigning in California or Texas today, because, in all but a landslide election, California will vote Democratic and Texas Republican.

Candidates who campaign in states don?t do stuff that will alienate that state. A candidate won?t campaign in Texas if he is planning on dropping a Texan as his running mate. A candidate won?t campaign in Texas if he is planning, let?s say, not installing the NASA headquarters in Texas but in some other state. If either of these actions are necessary, he needs to write off Texas and campaign in a different state that may go either way.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 09:33:53 PM »
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Texas loved LBJ -- especially Dallas.

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2018, 11:18:34 PM »
How come when LBJ asked Judge Sarah T. Hughes to administer the oath of office on Air Force One, he happened to have a copy of it in his pocket? Imagine that.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2018, 01:36:08 AM »


I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Texas loved LBJ -- especially Dallas.


Well, if I made a mistake, JFK made a bigger one for not choosing a running mate who could help him win an important state that could go either way.

Could LBJ help win Dallas? Not really. It was conservative and very much against Civil Rights. But Texas on the whole was not so extreme. Texas voted for the Democratic candidate for President throughout the 1960?s, unlike the deep South. LBJ was helpful in swinging Texas JFK?s way in 1960 and would be again in 1964, if he was still on the ticket.

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2018, 03:45:48 AM »
There was a recent "tradition" at the time to have a Southerner balance the ticket.

Year  Presidential
Candidate
  Vice-Presidential
Candidate
  Veep State

 
 
 
1948  Truman  Barkley
  Kentucky
1952  Stevenson  SparThe Lithping Larry Grayson "Oooh Shut That Door" doppleganger
  Alabama
1956  Stevenson  Kefauver
  Tennessee
1960  Kennedy  Johnson
  Texas

FDR's three Vice-Presidential candidates were from Texas, Iowa and Missouri, geographic counterparts to FDR's New York State.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2018, 03:55:33 AM »


How come when LBJ asked Judge Sarah T. Hughes to administer the oath of office on Air Force One, he happened to have a copy of it in his pocket? Imagine that.


The oath of the office for the President of the United States is included in Article Two of the U. S. Constitution. It is inconceivable that the President, and his advisors would not carry copies of the Constitution with them wherever they may go. Some coincidence indeed.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2018, 05:33:03 AM »


The Constitution also states that there is an automatic transfer of power, thus, LBJ didn't need to be sworn in. Since he was carrying a copy of the Constitution according to you then he should have known this.


LBJ knew this but perhaps the Soviets didn?t. If not, this public ceremony, immediately announced to the world, would remove any doubts about whether the United States had a President of the United States. Or any doubts if the United States would be able to respond, immediately, to any sudden attack, nuclear or otherwise.

 

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