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Author Topic: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz  (Read 2920 times)

Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2018, 08:45:42 PM »
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Did Benavides witness the shooting at all and did this shell picking actually take place?

There's no doubt in my mind that Dom Benavides was there and saw he murder .....He saw the killer and he observed the killer unload and discard the spent shells from the revolver..... ONE AT A TIME

Maybe, but it could be more complicated.

As the evidence in the volumes shows it was a win-win situation because both the WC and DP got their desperate cop killer!

The real problem is Gerald Hill who put out on the police radio that the shells were from an automatic .38 RATHER than a pistol; it doesn't get much better than that. This means those shells would be right by the squad car so how could CROY possibly have missed the shells considering:

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.


Now Hill:

Mr. HILL. -snip-
We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car.
Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez.
I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.

Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description?
Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name.
Mr. BELIN. Had anyone at anytime given you any cartridge cases of any kind?
Mr. HILL. No; they had not. This came much later.


There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission, but what if there were both an automatic and a pistol involved?

The automatic shells have to go and there are too few shells from the snub-nosed .38 initially found and more have to be added as they go...


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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2018, 08:45:42 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2018, 11:09:33 PM »
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Maybe, but it could be more complicated.

As the evidence in the volumes shows it was a win-win situation because both the WC and DP got their desperate cop killer!

The real problem is Gerald Hill who put out on the police radio that the shells were from an automatic .38 RATHER than a pistol; it doesn't get much better than that. This means those shells would be right by the squad car so how could CROY possibly have missed the shells considering:

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.


Now Hill:

Mr. HILL. -snip-
We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car.
Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez.
I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.

Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description?
Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name.
Mr. BELIN. Had anyone at anytime given you any cartridge cases of any kind?
Mr. HILL. No; they had not. This came much later.


There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission, but what if there were both an automatic and a pistol involved?

The automatic shells have to go and there are too few shells from the snub-nosed .38 initially found and more have to be added as they go...

We all have our views..... You apparently believe Hill saw a spent shell from a 38 automatic .....I don't.

Hill was part of the conspiracy....and he wasn't he sharpest knife in the drawer.   Perhaps he thought that a 38 special was an automatic ....or maybe his mouth was moving ahead of his brain because of his excitement as part of the conspiracy.....Who knows why he blurted out that the killer was using a 38 automatic????.......

We have several witnesses who saw the killer unloading the spent shells ONE AT A TIME from a revolver that was NOT a Smith and Wesson....and therefore the killer was NOT Lee Oswald.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2018, 06:26:54 PM »
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Maybe, but it could be more complicated.

As the evidence in the volumes shows it was a win-win situation because both the WC and DP got their desperate cop killer!

The real problem is Gerald Hill who put out on the police radio that the shells were from an automatic .38 RATHER than a pistol; it doesn't get much better than that. This means those shells would be right by the squad car so how could CROY possibly have missed the shells considering:

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.


Now Hill:

Mr. HILL. -snip-
We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car.
Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez.
I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.

Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description?
Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name.
Mr. BELIN. Had anyone at anytime given you any cartridge cases of any kind?
Mr. HILL. No; they had not. This came much later.


There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission, but what if there were both an automatic and a pistol involved?

The automatic shells have to go and there are too few shells from the snub-nosed .38 initially found and more have to be added as they go...

There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission,

Yes....and the cover up committee encouraged and propagated the lying.

I doubt that there was a 38 automatic involved....   I believe that Hill simply blurted out a ignorant erroneous statement to the dispatcher......  and I think it was simply due to his mistakenly thinking that the term 38 special was a term used when referring to a 38 automatic.   

Unfortunately many folks think that simply because Hill was a detective he would have been an expert and would have known all about guns.    I believe that Hill was a dufus......  who was deeply involved in the conspiracy to murder JFK.   




Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2018, 06:52:27 PM »
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There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission,

Yes....and the cover up committee encouraged and propagated the lying.

I doubt that there was a 38 automatic involved....   I believe that Hill simply blurted out a ignorant erroneous statement to the dispatcher......  and I think it was simply due to his mistakenly thinking that the term 38 special was a term used when referring to a 38 automatic.   

Unfortunately many folks think that simply because Hill was a detective he would have been an expert and would have known all about guns.    I believe that Hill was a dufus......  who was deeply involved in the conspiracy to murder JFK.

At one time ....waaaaay back when.....I thought that automatic handguns were called "specials".....  Maybe Hill also thought the same thing....

I believe Dick Tracy had a automatic and we referred to it as a Dick Tracy special.....
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 08:42:53 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2018, 06:36:12 PM »
Benavides arriving late...and taking off...?

Mr. BALL. Did some man come up immediately thereafter?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What kind of a car did he have?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Not immediately.
Mr. BALL. Soon?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Soon.
Mr. BALL. In a pickup truck?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes. I very frankly remembered this truck, but I remember it the way it took off.
Mr. BALL. He stopped though, didn't he?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes.
Mr. BALL. That is the man who called over the police radio, wasn't he?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I don't recall.
Mr. BALL. What did he look like, the man in the pickup truck?
Mrs. MARKHAM. This man had a hat on. I thought he was a policeman.
Mr. BALL. A dark man, looked somewhat Spanish?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I don't recall. I was screaming and crying and trying to get help, begging for somebody to help me.

BALL tries to spoon fed Markham but it doesn't work well for him. And we have the Benavides vs. Bowley on the radio problem...

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2018, 06:36:12 PM »


Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2018, 06:47:00 PM »
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At one time ....waaaaay back when.....I thought that automatic handguns were called "specials".....  Maybe Hill also thought the same thing....

I believe Dick Tracy had a automatic and we referred to it as a Dick Tracy special.....

I'm sure you know the Hill video on YouTube,

"

Hill was obviuosly a meat head but the shells are distinctly different (@1:20) and marked (@1:30) as stated and the special was popular with police forces. I have difficulty believing even Hill would not know this.


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2018, 07:56:28 PM »
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Mr. BALL. What did he look like, the man in the pickup truck?
Mrs. MARKHAM. This man had a hat on. I thought he was a policeman.
Mr. BALL. A dark man, looked somewhat Spanish?
Mrs. MARKHAM. I don't recall. I was screaming and crying and trying to get help, begging for somebody to help me.

Was Benavides wearing a hat?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2018, 10:18:08 PM »
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I'm sure you know the Hill video on YouTube,

"

Hill was obviuosly a meat head but the shells are distinctly different (@1:20) and marked (@1:30) as stated and the special was popular with police forces. I have difficulty believing even Hill would not know this.

Hill was obviuosly a meat head

I strongly suspect that Hill was hot only a meathead....I believe he was one of the key conspirators at the DPD.

Perhaps he'd been told that the patsy owned a 38 automatic and therefore reported the spent shell was a 38 auto...Or it's possible that Hill did see a 38 automatic shell but it just happened to be there at the scene and had no connection to the murder.     Let's say the killer had some 38 auto shells in his pocket and when he reached into his pocket for live cartridges to reload the revolver he dropped one of the 38 auto shells.....






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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2018, 10:18:08 PM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2018, 06:51:40 AM »
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Maybe, but it could be more complicated.

As the evidence in the volumes shows it was a win-win situation because both the WC and DP got their desperate cop killer!

The real problem is Gerald Hill who put out on the police radio that the shells were from an automatic .38 RATHER than a pistol; it doesn't get much better than that. This means those shells would be right by the squad car so how could CROY possibly have missed the shells considering:

Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you talk with her?
Mr. CROY. Oh, a good 5 or 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any other officers there with you when you were talking with her?
Mr. CROY. Yes; and no. I talked to her, and then they talked to her, and then I talked to her, and just after I located a witness, the squad did get there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This conversation all took place near the scene of the Tippit killing?
Mr. CROY. Leaning up against his car.


Now Hill:

Mr. HILL. -snip-
We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car.
Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair."
At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez.
I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.

Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description?
Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name.
Mr. BELIN. Had anyone at anytime given you any cartridge cases of any kind?
Mr. HILL. No; they had not. This came much later.


There is no doubt Hill was flat out lying to the commission, but what if there were both an automatic and a pistol involved?

The automatic shells have to go and there are too few shells from the snub-nosed .38 initially found and more have to be added as they go...

Kenneth Croy is a Reserve Police Sergeant with the Dallas Police Reserve.
He's at the scene of Tippit's murder and in the DPD basement when Oswald is murdered by Ruby.



Online Tom Sorensen

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2018, 10:52:39 AM »
Jack Brewer and Julia Postal, instrumental in leading the DP (and FBI) to the Texas Theater where Oswald was apprehended, are both missing from the witness list in Fritz' report.

Considering how the TT was flooded with cops that must have been a SOLID tip, right?

However, the DPD didn't get their affidavits until December of '63. This is how the time line looks:

NOV 22 JKF/TIPPIT killed. Oswald apprehended.
NOV 23
NOV 24 Oswald killed.
NOV 25
NOV 26
NOV 27
NOV 28
NOV 29
NOV 30
DEC 01
DEC 02
DEC 03
DEC 04 Postal affidavit (1)
DEC 05
DEC 06 Brewer affidavit

(1) picked up by Hall/Boyd (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Anyone sharing my surprise?

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Re: Case Report on Lee Harvey Oswald by J. W. Fritz
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2018, 10:52:39 AM »