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Author Topic: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy  (Read 23208 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2021, 07:21:46 PM »
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You got hornswaggled by the formatting on McAdams' website.

There are no timestamps on either the Chism or Souter transmissions, so we don't know exactly when they were made. All we know is that they occurred sometime after the rope transmission at 12:54 and the before the channel 2 dispatcher responds to Souter at 1:03. They could very well be just before the 1:03 transmission, eliminating any discrepancy. Their positioning just after the rope transmission on McAdams' site is just an arbitrary decision by the person who put together the page.

I'll go for that.
If they were moved down that large gap they can make sense.
I have little idea how these transcripts were put together. Do you know if the continuous tape recording Russ Shearer used to fine-tune his re-drafting of the transcripts still exists?

The other thing I didn't realise was that there was a different dispatcher for each channel. This might account for the Dispatcher on Channel 2 not knowing the man in the library was the wrong man.

Time to abandon ship on my little theory I reckon.

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2021, 07:21:46 PM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2021, 07:43:07 PM »
I'll go for that.
If they were moved down that large gap they can make sense.
I have little idea how these transcripts were put together. Do you know if the continuous tape recording Russ Shearer used to fine-tune his re-drafting of the transcripts still exists?

The other thing I didn't realise was that there was a different dispatcher for each channel. This might account for the Dispatcher on Channel 2 not knowing the man in the library was the wrong man.

Time to abandon ship on my little theory I reckon.

Shearer's transcript for channel one was based on the Minneapolis library copy. There are other copies of channel one floating around in the hands of collectors, researchers, and maybe at the National Archives. Channel two is harder to come by. Because of issues with the rather cantankerous Audiograph system used to record them, there isn't a good single copy that isn't prone to repeats and skips. Mike Odell has created a useful, if synthetic, copy using bits and pieces culled from different versions but it only runs to about 12:50pm. You can find it here:



Online Dan O'meara

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2021, 03:00:53 AM »
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,120.msg1503.html#msg1503

Hey, Dan - great name - and Martin, Todd, Charles etc.  I'm glad you decided to scrutinize the radio relays that day
because I presented my own version of the events that may have taken place.   Yes - the relays seemed to be tampered with.  First of all, I firmly believe there was an arrest made that day at Redbird Airport and all suspects - including Oswald at the theater were captured.  I also believe the two SS agents who were assigned to stay at Love Field (willingly or otherwise) who also went to lunch - helped the police capture the said subjects at Redbird.  One example. After Craig notified what he thought was an SS agent (and he probably was) that suspects got into a station wagon and sped away.  Shortly after, 67 - Officer  Everett asked the Dispatcher - Should I head south - to which the Dispatcher said - Yes.  If you now look at the relays Martin provided that now says.  Do you want me to head south - Dispatcher - Yes.  They - in the station wagon - South - where Redbird was located.   There is also one misplaced page which just happens to state -   Secret Service ... outer perimeter '... they are being brought back.  Etc - if you want to read it just click the site. 
Please note I don't want my post to be bumped as I want to keep the conversation here if I can.

Thanks.         

"Yes - the relays seemed to be tampered with."

I'm not really familiar with how the recordings work and I'm working on the assumption of a single assassin at the moment.
I am interested about your view regarding the "relays" and how they were tampered with.

Agreed on the strong name. Apparently it means "Judgement".

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2021, 03:00:53 AM »


Offline Dan DAlimonte

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2021, 02:02:58 PM »
Hey Dan.  First of all I want to thank you for presenting this post which circles around the Radio Traffic Relays and the discrepancies therein.  Secondly, there is the following.  I'm not the kind of guy who likes bumping his own thread.  I'm also not the kind of guy who likes presenting a topic in someone else's thread which becomes the main topic of his post.  So with that being said I'm  going to remove my post and let your post complete its run.  After that I'll decide if I'm going to bump my own thread or let It stay in Limbo where it is now.    It will probably be the latter.  Thanks again for presenting your post. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 04:22:00 PM by Dan DAlimonte »

Offline Chris Scally

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2021, 05:40:43 PM »
Dan and Dan,

I've read this thread with interest, and while I honestly don't have time - or the necessary access to my files, which I've stored offsite - I will try to assist (from memory, so some errors are inevitable for which I apologize in advance!) in some way with the issues you raise.

First, with reference to transcripts, there are many, many versions of the DPD radio transcripts, and probably all of them contain errors, omissions, etc., of one kind or another. For example, the Secret Service, the Dallas Police, and the FBI all made transcripts, in addition to private transcripts made by Jim Bowles, Arch Kimbrough, Dave Dix, Russ Sheerer and many others. Some of these purport to be "complete" transcripts, while even more are only partial transcripts.

Add to this the fact that there are numerous copies of the radio recordings themselves, too. Again, many of these are only partial copies which, like some of the transcripts, focus on segments of the recordings of particular interest to the author/originator. All of these recordings are many, many generations removed from the original recordings - the Channel 1 recordings were voice-activated, made in "real time" onto flimsy blue polyester dictabelts by means of a stylus cutting a continuous grove onto a blank belt, capable of holding up to 30 minutes worth of sound recordings. In order to ensure that no break in recording, the radio messages were recorded such that there was an "overlap" of about 15-20 seconds at the end of each belt and the start of the next belt. Similarly, Channel 2 (an auxiliary channel used to handle additional radio traffic generated by special events) was also a voice-activated recording, recorded onto flexible green plastic discs. On the day of the assassination, there were two dispatchers working together on Channel 1 at any one time (Officers Hulse and Jackson at the time of the assassination, if I remember correctly), while another dispatcher (Sgt. Henslee) was working Channel 2 on his own, so it is not really surprising that there are discrepancies between what was said (and when it was said) by the dispatcher on either channel.

Over time, both the channel 1 and 2 recordings were copied onto a variety of media, including reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, PC diskettes, hard drives, etc. The quality of these copies varied immensely, as did the recording speeds of the devices on which they were copied. In addition, the physical location of the original recordings over the years was not always the best in terms of protecting the recordings - in envelopes in boxes, in drawers in filing cabinets, and other such places, and certainly not in ideal storage conditions in terms of temperature and humidity-controlled environments, either.

So, when we take all these factors into consideration, it is not really surprising that discrepancies will arise from one transcript to another, and from one recording to another. However, the "nearest to the original" recordings that currently exist are held in the National Archives, from whom copies can be purchased. Copies of these recordings can be purchased from NARA, but to the best of my recollection, they are quite pricey! The recordings obtainable from NARA (again, from memory) cover the time periods from around 10:00 am to 2:00 pm on Channel 1, and 11:00 am to 10:00 pm on Channel 2.

I apologize for this lengthy post, but I hope it will be of some help to you in explaining how and why some of the many discrepancies between the recordings and the transcripts could - and did - arise.
     

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2021, 05:40:43 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2021, 05:53:42 PM »
Dan and Dan,

I've read this thread with interest, and while I honestly don't have time - or the necessary access to my files, which I've stored offsite - I will try to assist (from memory, so some errors are inevitable for which I apologize in advance!) in some way with the issues you raise.

First, with reference to transcripts, there are many, many versions of the DPD radio transcripts, and probably all of them contain errors, omissions, etc., of one kind or another. For example, the Secret Service, the Dallas Police, and the FBI all made transcripts, in addition to private transcripts made by Jim Bowles, Arch Kimbrough, Dave Dix, Russ Sheerer and many others. Some of these purport to be "complete" transcripts, while even more are only partial transcripts.

Add to this the fact that there are numerous copies of the radio recordings themselves, too. Again, many of these are only partial copies which, like some of the transcripts, focus on segments of the recordings of particular interest to the author/originator. All of these recordings are many, many generations removed from the original recordings - the Channel 1 recordings were voice-activated, made in "real time" onto flimsy blue polyester dictabelts by means of a stylus cutting a continuous grove onto a blank belt, capable of holding up to 30 minutes worth of sound recordings. In order to ensure that no break in recording, the radio messages were recorded such that there was an "overlap" of about 15-20 seconds at the end of each belt and the start of the next belt. Similarly, Channel 2 (an auxiliary channel used to handle additional radio traffic generated by special events) was also a voice-activated recording, recorded onto flexible green plastic discs. On the day of the assassination, there were two dispatchers working together on Channel 1 at any one time (Officers Hulse and Jackson at the time of the assassination, if I remember correctly), while another dispatcher (Sgt. Henslee) was working Channel 2 on his own, so it is not really surprising that there are discrepancies between what was said (and when it was said) by the dispatcher on either channel.

Over time, both the channel 1 and 2 recordings were copied onto a variety of media, including reel-to-reel tapes, cassette tapes, PC diskettes, hard drives, etc. The quality of these copies varied immensely, as did the recording speeds of the devices on which they were copied. In addition, the physical location of the original recordings over the years was not always the best in terms of protecting the recordings - in envelopes in boxes, in drawers in filing cabinets, and other such places, and certainly not in ideal storage conditions in terms of temperature and humidity-controlled environments, either.

So, when we take all these factors into consideration, it is not really surprising that discrepancies will arise from one transcript to another, and from one recording to another. However, the "nearest to the original" recordings that currently exist are held in the National Archives, from whom copies can be purchased. Copies of these recordings can be purchased from NARA, but to the best of my recollection, they are quite pricey! The recordings obtainable from NARA (again, from memory) cover the time periods from around 10:00 am to 2:00 pm on Channel 1, and 11:00 am to 10:00 pm on Channel 2.

I apologize for this lengthy post, but I hope it will be of some help to you in explaining how and why some of the many discrepancies between the recordings and the transcripts could - and did - arise.
   
Question: Were the dictabelts "voice activated" or "sound activated? I have read it was the latter.

For example, Bowles said in his piece cited earlier that there were instances on the recordings where a sound activated a dictabelt but no actual sound was recorded. Or could be heard.

Offline Chris Scally

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 06:29:58 PM »
Good question, Steve - I believe you are probably correct, in that they were "sound" rather than "voice"activated. I guess that would probably make more sense, wouldn't it?

Chris

[Typo corrected]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 06:31:06 PM by Chris Scally »

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 06:29:58 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: DPD Tapes and a 6 Minute Discrepancy
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2021, 07:37:33 PM »
Good question, Steve - I believe you are probably correct, in that they were "sound" rather than "voice"activated. I guess that would probably make more sense, wouldn't it?

Chris

[Typo corrected]

Great post Chris.
I'd kind of given up on this thread as my early ideas only revealed my total ignorance of this aspect of the Kennedy case.

My situation is this - on another thread an alternative timeline has been put together regarding the Tippit murder.
In my opinion this timeline brings different key testimonies together in a way I find most satisfactory.
The problem is that this timeline, created through the testimonies, requires a discrepancy of 6 minutes between the Tapes and "real time" around the time of Tippit's murder.
In my OP I have established that "police time" and "real time" were pretty much in synch.
Is there any way, in your opinion, such a discrepancy might have occurred?
You seem quite clued up about it and I've fried my brain on this, getting nowhere.