Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

[John Mytton]

 

That's so funny, the kid can't fit a square peg into a round hole so just cheats, an excellent analogy of CT thinking.

JohnM

[Andrew Mason]

But nothing wrong with you using a medical illustration of a person not twisted and who's standing upright.

??The point about using the medical illustration is to show the location on the body.  When you compare it the the twisted and leaning torso of JBC you have to allow for changes such as a dropped right shoulder. I have shown how it is certainly not impossible for the bullet exiting the chest at the level of the 5th rib as JBC is positioned in z268 to have struck him in the wrist where it did.

So Dan's response to the abundant evidence that tells us a shot around z271 striking JBC occurred, which was that it is impossible for the bullet exiting the chest to strike the wrist where it did, is not correct. So we are left with all that evidence that tells us the second shot occurred there.

[Andrew Mason]

That's so funny, the kid can't fit a square peg into a round hole so just cheats, an excellent analogy of CT thinking.

JohnM

Yeah. I agree.  But it is also like the SBT cheats about
1. the trajectory through JFK's neck to JBC's right armpit working
2. that the jagged tears on the french cuff, the jagged edges of the chest exit and wrist entrance wounds are consistent with CE399
3. ignoring the fact that the bullet through JBC's back made a round tunneling path
4. Ignoring the problems with a bullet exiting JBC's chest striking the right wrist changing direction and then striking the left thigh on an oblique angle in the direction of the femur at z225.
5. Ignoring Nellie Connally and all the others who said that JFK reacted to the first shot
6. Ignoring the 1... ....2....3 shot pattern
Etc.

[Jerry Organ]

??The point about using the medical illustration is to show the location on the body. 

Mason's "Confirmation Bias" Alignment

Non-Bias Alignment (Top of sternum at base of necktie knot)

When you compare it the the twisted and leaning torso of JBC you have to allow for changes such as a dropped right shoulder. I have shown how it is certainly not impossible for the bullet exiting the chest at the level of the 5th rib as JBC is positioned in z268 to have struck him in the wrist where it did.

Connally is basically presenting most of his front chest area to Zapruder. His left torso and left shoulder are closer in space to Zapruder than the right side. The right shoulder is lower and pulled forward (but still above the seat-back, where Connally's right torso is in contact). The Governor's torso is declined towards Nellie about 15°. The right nipple is below the car rail, relative to Zapruder's camera view; the left nipple is above. To get the right nipple even with the car rail (relative to camera view) requires 25° more inclination. In other words, Connally in Z268-72 would have be declined at a 40° angle towards Nellie.

So Dan's response to the abundant evidence that tells us a shot around z271 striking JBC occurred, which was that it is impossible for the bullet exiting the chest to strike the wrist where it did, is not correct. So we are left with all that evidence that tells us the second shot occurred there.

Evidence other than your wounding scenario is one thing. These two things definitely won't be part of any solution:

• Z190s shot through Kennedy's neck, pass Connally's torso and into his thigh
• Z270s shot into Connally's back and going on to strike his radius.

[Andrew Mason]

Mason's "Confirmation Bias" Alignment

Non-Bias Alignment (Top of sternum at base of necktie knot)

Are you serious, Jerry? You have the right shoulder 4 inches below the shoulder in the zfilm! Do you really think that the red square is where his right nipple is?

Connally is basically presenting most of his front chest area to Zapruder.

More or less.  But his shoulders are turned almost 90 degrees to the car direction.  His hips are still likely not turned more than 20 degrees. So the torso from hips to shoulders ranges from 20 to 90 degrees to the car direction.

His left torso and left shoulder are closer in space to Zapruder than the right side.

. The difference is miniscule.  It is made even less because of the telephoto zoom lens..

[Jerry Organ]

Are you serious, Jerry? You have the right shoulder 4 inches below the shoulder in the zfilm!

The sternum is less mobile than the shoulders. And it's the chest and ribs we're most concerned with.

Leaving the sternum match in place, one could tilt the medical illustration a little to raise Connally's left shoulder, but it would not improve the elevation of the right nipple.

Maybe try it in 3D. The medical illustration is 2D and won't match up fully with a life image taken at an oblique angle.

[Andrew Mason]

The sternum is less mobile than the shoulders. And it's the chest and ribs we're most concerned with.

Leaving the sternum match in place, one could tilt the medical illustration a little to raise Connally's left shoulder, but it would not improve the elevation of the right nipple.

Maybe try it in 3D. The medical illustration is 2D and won't match up fully with a life image taken at an oblique angle.

You can't be serious! And you accuse me of confirmation bias!

How can you say you are matching the sternum location when the part where the neck connects to the shoulder is at least 4 inches higher in the zframe?

[Jerry Organ]

You can't be serious! And you accuse me of confirmation bias!

How can you say you are matching the sternum location when the part where the neck connects to the shoulder is at least 4 inches higher in the zframe?

Since your medical illustration shows the shoulders at rest, a "shoulder-line" match to the photo should match with how Connally's shoulders are at rest.


The right left shoulder is artificially high and the camera angle is oblique. The best you can do is match the sternum level. The sternum is approximately on the frontal plane of the upper chest, which we can see in the Zapruder film.