Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

[Dan O'meara]

Also note that in z271 - 275, when the bullet is supposedly exiting JBC's chest and smashing his wrist apart, that his hand doesn't appear to move a fraction of an inch.

Irrefutable video evidence that the bullet does not exit JBC's chest at this moment.

Can't believe this nonsense is still being peddled.

[Gerry Down]

The bullet basically went around the chest cavity and did not penetrate the pleura (the lining of the chest cavity around the lungs.  The bullet did not pass through the lung.  Rather it drove shards of bone inward and down through the pleura and into the lower lobe of the lung.  The only way that can happen is by impacting the outer surface of the rib and then driving through the rib from the outer surface sending bone pieces inward.

I see. So the bullet did not go through the lung. Kinda confusing when people say Connolly's lung collapsed and this is why he puffs his cheeks trying to get air. I guess he could be puffing his cheeks from the pain.

[Jerry Organ]

Have a look at Altgens photo taken at z256.  You can see that JBC is in the middle of his seat and is not fully turned.  His right shoulder is on a line to the right side of JFK back to the SN.  Look at z256:

and z261:

Of course you can make it seem that Connally "is not fully turned" if you manipulate the pictures.

and explain to me how JBC's right armpit is to the left side of JFK on a shot from the SN.

You have no understanding of parallax and perspective.

It is rather obvious that you are not taking an impartial view of the photographic evidence.

I'm not manipulating frames and offering up this kind of stuff:

Not only is JBC in the middle of his seat at z271 and that his right armpit is well right of the middle of the seat, but you are maintaining that JFK has hardly moved left at all. you have his right elbow still on the car.

The Zapruder film depicts it there. The overhead view shows the right elbow away from the chrome strip which the elbow was over earlier.

We can see in z261 that Jacqueline Kennedy is holding his left elbow and his left hand is up near his neck.  So his left elbow is close to the middle of the car. Work out where his midline is from that.

You know Jackie was already to her right in the car?

It is pretty clear that JFK is left of JBC in both Altgens and the zfilm.

I don't think so. I think Kennedy and Connally's heads are in a line, and that both are inboard relative to Kellerman. By Z272, Connally's head was a little more inboard than Kennedy's.

The bullet struck the back of the wrist at the end of the jacket cuff, which is located within the yellow square here:


That is at least 6 inches below his tie knot.  How far below your tie knot is your right nipple?

For adult males, about eight inches from the sternal notch to the nipple. This is within 1/2" of the measurement on my model.

[Andrew Mason]

I see. So the bullet did not go through the lung. Kinda confusing when people say Connolly's lung collapsed and this is why h1e puffs his cheeks trying to get air. I guess he could be puffing his cheeks from the pain.

Connally's lung likely did not collapse until he got out of the car at Parkland. He said he felt no pain until then. The only missile that penetrated the pleura and lung was rib bone shards driven down into the lower lobe of the right lung. Connally kept his right wrist pressed against his chest and Dr. Shaw said that this likely allowed him to breathe en route to Parkland.

There is good evidence that JBC is saying "Oh, no, no" when he puffs out his cheeks from z242-250. . Lip readers have agreed that he is saying that there. Also Jackie turns to look at him at that point. She said that this is what drew her attention.  There is no other place where this occurs. Nellie said that JBC uttered this before the second shot. JBC was not sure.

[Andrew Mason]

Of course you can make it seem that Connally "is not fully turned" if you manipulate the pictures.

I am talking about JBC's chest.  In case you have not noticed this about the human torso, it twists so that the shoulders turn farther than the upper chest, which turns farther than the abdomen which turns farther than the hips, which are likely facing forward and have not moved. 

You have no understanding of parallax and perspective.

Ok.  Then explain to me how you determine that JFK is NOT left of JBC here:

I don't think so. I think Kennedy and Connally's heads are in a line, and that both are inboard relative to Kellerman. By Z272, Connally's head was a little more inboard than Kennedy's.

Oh, right, just like this photo taken about 30 seconds before the first shot shows that they are not in a line with Kellerman:

For adult males, about eight inches from the sternal notch to the nipple. This is within 1/2" of the measurement on my model.

I just measured the vertical distance from the top of my tie knot to just below my right nipple:  7.25 inches.   Keep in mind that the garments move relative to the body. Even the skin and subcutaneous tissue can move relative to the ribs.  You can see this happening when the torso twists.  The turn with his right arm jammed between the chest and the seat-back could easily have caused shifts of the clothing.  It would indeed be remarkable that the two wounds - the chest exit and the wrist entrance - are virtually touching at z271 if the injuries took place when they were 12 inches apart (let alone not aligned with the SN or the thigh wound).

[Mark Tyler]

Hickey was looking forward for the last two shots and definitely recalled the last shot striking JFK in the head.  He said that the second shot did not appear to hit JFK.  It appeared to miss.  All he saw was the hair on the right of JFK's head fly up at the time the second shot sounded.  Guess where that occurs?

Brehm does not necessarily describe the headshot as the second shot.  He said that JFK's hair flew up on the second shot.  That is what Hickey saw as well on the second shot. Brehm was never questioned by the WC. It is difficult to determine what he saw.  Hudson gave two statements shortly after the events (November 22 and 25, 1963) and gave a very different statement in his testimony in July 1964.  If you go by his first two statements as being the more accurate, he says that JFK slumped on the first shot and the last two shots were in rapid succession.  He does not say which of the shots hit the President in the head. He does not even mention a shot hitting the President in the head.
It was not a matter of not hearing a shot after the head shot.  It is a matter of hearing and/or seeing the head shot as the third of the three shots.  The Connallys, Greer, Hickey, Powers, Bennett, and McIntyre all recalled the head shot as the third shot.  Hill recalled it as the last of two shots that he recalled but believes, based on what other agents said, that there was a second shot while he was running beside the left front of the QM.

The statement I use for Brehm was given on 24th November, which I read as meaning the second shot was the head shot with short gaps between the shots of a few seconds or more:

When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.

BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.

22H837
https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0434a.htm

He explained this shot sequence very clearly in 1986 with the aid of a map:

As for Emmett Hudson, his early statements are lacking in detail, but by explaining more in 1964 I would say that we can use that as his clearest view of the events.  I don't think anything he said later contradicts the early statements, he merely gives more information.

Yes I agree with you, several witnesses do regard the head shot as the third, which contrasts with the others who said the head shot was the second shot.  Although superficially the Dealey Plaza witnesses seem to contradict each other on this point, I think it is possible to make sense of their testimony in terms of each of them only hearing a part of the gunshot sequence.  Some witnesses missed the first shot, some missed the last, and others heard double bangs instead of a single shot (especially near the head shot).  Overall they cluster around three clear bursts of gunfire relative to the Zapruder film:

• Z190-Z230
• Z313
• Z360-Z400

This pattern also matches those who reported three separate shots, and also those who said the last two shots were closer than the first two.  It seems to be a rather neat way to explain the otherwise incongruous witness statements.  The only remaining issue to untangle is whether a single shot was fired in each burst, or whether a pair of shots was ever fired (i.e. two gunmen versus echoes from a single shot).

[Jerry Organ]

I am talking about JBC's chest.  In case you have not noticed this about the human torso, it twists so that the shoulders turn farther than the upper chest, which turns farther than the abdomen which turns farther than the hips, which are likely facing forward and have not moved.

I am aware of human articulation, Smartie-Pants. I used life-scale models and set the articulation points according to how Connally is seen in Z271. I'm not going to contort Connally to satisfy your Pet Theory. But you go ahead and we'll compare your graphics to the Zapruder frames.

Ok.  Then explain to me how you determine that JFK is NOT left of JBC here:

Parallax and perspective. When Kennedy leaned to his left, he pivoted on his waist and his right shoulder raised up. For Connally, he rolled backed towards Nellie. Maybe Connallyin your cherry-pick (aren't we discussing the Z271 area?) is a bit doubled up in pain from being shot through the chest a few seconds earlier. Oh yeah, you don't believe that, but instead you believe he's just waving his hat and his wrist is bent funny like that for no reason.

Oh, right, just like this photo taken about 30 seconds before the first shot shows that they are not in a line with Kellerman:

"About 30 seconds"? What a fraud. And a cherry-pick. One of the very few motorcade photos in which Kennedy is leaning inward and Connally is leaning outward. This is the opposite of how they were in Dealey Plaza and the approach to the sign.

I just measured the vertical distance from the top of my tie knot to just below my right nipple:  7.25 inches.   Keep in mind that the garments move relative to the body. Even the skin and subcutaneous tissue can move relative to the ribs.  You can see this happening when the torso twists.  The turn with his right arm jammed between the chest and the seat-back

Connally's right shoulder is always above the seat-back, not "jammed".

could easily have caused shifts of the clothing.  It would indeed be remarkable that the two wounds - the chest exit and the wrist entrance - are virtually touching at z271

LOL! Only in the windmills of your mind. BTW, try to get the top of the wrist in tight and flat to just below your nipple. And how does a bullet at full velocity make a right-turn against one of the thinnest bones in the body and breaks it elsewhere? The SBT is not that farfetched.

if the injuries took place when they were 12 inches apart (let alone not aligned with the SN or the thigh wound).

You're just nitpicking and full of baloney. Show it with 3D.

[Andrew Mason]

Also note that in z271 - 275, when the bullet is supposedly exiting JBC's chest and smashing his wrist apart, that his hand doesn't appear to move a fraction of an inch.

Irrefutable video evidence that the bullet does not exit JBC's chest at this moment.

Can't believe this nonsense is still being peddled.

I am not sure you are right about that.  There is a noticeable change in appearance of the wrist because the hat moves significantly there.  Here is the difference between two fairly clear frames z268 and z274. 

By z274 JFK's body has changed posture and he moves toward the front before falling back onto his wife.


Besides, his right arm appears to be pinned against the chest, probably because he is pressing his arm into the seatback.  Also the bullet made a glancing strike to the back of the wrist.  It did not smash his wrist apart.  Where do you ever see the wrist smashed apart?

But all of this just helps to pinpoint the frames.  It is the 1.....2...3 shot pattern with the head shot being the last shot that tells us there was a  shot there. Gerald Blaine in his book The Kennedy Detail maintains that there was a shot as Clint Hill jumped off the QM and before the headshot.  Altgens  said his z256 shot was after the first and before any other shots.  Nellie said the second shot came after she last looked back at JFK.  She is looking at him until z269 or so.  Hickey said that the last two shots occurred as he was turned looking at the President.  He is facing rearward until after z256 (Altgens). 

So I would have to disagree that there is no evidence to support a shot after the midpoint between the first shot and the headshot.