Oswald's shot-1 ricochet was at Z113 or Z105.

[Gerry Down]

The bullet struck the 5th rib. You have drawn it as though the bullet struck the rib on Connalys back rather than his front. I though the bullet broke Connllys rib on the front side of his body?

[Jerry Organ]

The bullet struck the 5th rib. You have drawn it as though the bullet struck the rib on Connalys back rather than his front. I though the bullet broke Connllys rib on the front side of his body?

The graphic is for Mason's Pet Theory only. It shows the entry point where I believe the HSCA showed it.

Sure, move the bullet impact more towards the front of the rib. But not too much or the bullet will be going through the right arm. The trajectory won't work for Mason's Pet Theory no matter where it strikes the rib.

(Personally I think the actual rib strike was more tangential. It's Mason's Pet Theory that has the bullet striking so nose-on.)

[Andrew Mason]

The bullet struck the 5th rib. You have drawn it as though the bullet struck the rib on Connalys back rather than his front. I though the bullet broke Connllys rib on the front side of his body?

According to the medical evidence, the bullet struck the fifth rib in the back near the scapula (shoulder blade) and just medial to the right axilla (armpit) fold (Shaw 6H85).  There was a fracture of the fifth rib 4 cm to the right of the spine.  This was noticed by Dr. Shaw afterward from the xrays and is mentioned in his HSCA testimony (1HSCA261).  This fracture was caused by the bullet causing the rib to flex as there was nothing that struck JBC near the spine.  In order to cause the rib to move, the bullet must apply force to the rib for a bit of time.  This is not the result of the bullet passing through the rib but of striking it where it entered and following along the rib until it broke through the bone. Once it broke through the bone, the flexing force on the upper rib ended.

[Andrew Mason]

The graphic is for Mason's Pet Theory only. It shows the entry point where I believe the HSCA showed it.

Sure, move the bullet impact more towards the front of the rib. But not too much or the bullet will be going through the right arm. The trajectory won't work for Mason's Pet Theory no matter where it strikes the rib.

(Personally I think the actual rib strike was more tangential. It's Mason's Pet Theory that has the bullet striking so nose-on.)

Nice graphics, Jerry.  But, as usual, you have everything wrong.

First of all, the bullet missed JFK's head on his right side. 
Second, you do not allow for the fact that JFK had moved significantly to his left by z271.
Third, you seem to think that JBC was turned completely 90 degrees.  But his chest is facing Zapruder so his shoulders are turned about 65-70 degrees.
Fourth, you have his wrist too high. The bullet exited through his right jacket pocket and passed through the end of his jacket cuff and through the french cuff of his shirt.  The wrist is pronated so that the back of his wrist (not the side of his wrist) is pressed against the chest (not his neck as you have it).   The end of his jacket cuff over the back of his wrist cannot be seen as it is pressed against his right jacket pocket.

I know you don't agree with my position, but in order to try to "refute" it, you have to follow the evidence.  You are just making stuff up.  In order to refute the evidence of a second shot around z271 striking JBC you have to recreate the positions of the men accurately. Since the best evidence is a two dimensional low resolution film, we have to estimate a range of possible positions and show the path to the right of JFK's head to JBC's right armpit to the back of his wrist for this range of possible positions.

[Gerry Down]

According to the medical evidence, the bullet struck the fifth rib in the back near the scapula (shoulder blade) and just medial to the right axilla (armpit) fold (Shaw 6H85).  There was a fracture of the fifth rib 4 cm to the right of the spine.  This was noticed by Dr. Shaw afterward from the xrays and is mentioned in his HSCA testimony (1HSCA261).  This fracture was caused by the bullet causing the rib to flex as there was nothing that struck JBC near the spine.  In order to cause the rib to move, the bullet must apply force to the rib for a bit of time.  This is not the result of the bullet passing through the rib but of striking it where it entered and following along the rib until it broke through the bone. Once it broke through the bone, the flexing force on the upper rib ended.

You learn something new everyday in this case. I must pay closer attention to the medical description of this rib break. I read recently that some think pieces of rib exited under connallys nipple and this is why his lapel bulges at z224. This made me think the bullet passed through his chest and burst out his front breaking the rib on the front of his chest as the bullet exited.

[Jerry Organ]

Nice graphics, Jerry.  But, as usual, you have everything wrong.

First of all, the bullet missed JFK's head on his right side. 

Wrong. It would go through Kennedy first no matter how much I moved Connally.

Second, you do not allow for the fact that JFK had moved significantly to his left by z271.

One of the insets shows the over-head view. And Kennedy is to his left pretty far. You see, the Zapruder film defines where he is placed.

Third, you seem to think that JBC was turned completely 90 degrees.  But his chest is facing Zapruder so his shoulders are turned about 65-70 degrees.

15%. Wow! Even if so, your trajectory still wouldn't work.

Fourth, you have his wrist too high. The bullet exited through his right jacket pocket and passed through the end of his jacket cuff and through the french cuff of his shirt.

Not when it comes to your Theory.

The wrist is pronated so that the back of his wrist (not the side of his wrist) is pressed against the chest (not his neck as you have it).   The end of his jacket cuff over the back of his wrist cannot be seen as it is pressed against his right jacket pocket.

I don't believe Connally had a giraffe neck. You see, the profile matches that of Connally in Z272. The model's neck is proportionally-correct.


Compare the level of the exit opening to the amount of shirt and necktie knot visible in Z272.

I know you don't agree with my position, but in order to try to "refute" it, you have to follow the evidence.  You are just making stuff up.  In order to refute the evidence of a second shot around z271 striking JBC you have to recreate the positions of the men accurately.

Looking forward to your 3D presentation.

Since the best evidence is a two dimensional low resolution film, we have to estimate a range of possible positions and show the path to the right of JFK's head to JBC's right armpit to the back of his wrist for this range of possible positions.

I see. My estimates are "making things up" Whereas, your estimates are ...

[Andrew Mason]

Wrong. It would go through Kennedy first no matter how much I moved Connally.

Have a look at Altgens photo taken at z256.  You can see that JBC is in the middle of his seat and is not fully turned.  His right shoulder is on a line to the right side of JFK back to the SN.  Look at z256:

and z261:

and explain to me how JBC's right armpit is to the left side of JFK on a shot from the SN.

It is rather obvious that you are not taking an impartial view of the photographic evidence.

Not only is JBC in the middle of his seat at z271 and that his right armpit is well right of the middle of the seat, but you are maintaining that JFK has hardly moved left at all. you have his right elbow still on the car.

One of the insets shows the over-head view. And Kennedy is to his left pretty far. You see, the Zapruder film defines where he is placed.

We can see in z261 that Jacqueline Kennedy is holding his left elbow and his left hand is up near his neck.  So his left elbow is close to the middle of the car. Work out where his midline is from that.  It is pretty clear that JFK is left of JBC in both Altgens and the zfilm.

Compare the level of the exit opening to the amount of shirt and necktie knot visible in Z272.

The bullet struck the back of the wrist at the end of the jacket cuff, which is located within the yellow square here:


That is at least 6 inches below his tie knot.  How far below your tie knot is your right nipple?

[Andrew Mason]

You learn something new everyday in this case. I must pay closer attention to the medical description of this rib break. I read recently that some think pieces of rib exited under connallys nipple and this is why his lapel bulges at z224. This made me think the bullet passed through his chest and burst out his front breaking the rib on the front of his chest as the bullet exited.

The bullet basically went around the chest cavity and did not penetrate the pleura (the lining of the chest cavity around the lungs.  The bullet did not pass through the lung.  Rather it drove shards of bone inward and down through the pleura and into the lower lobe of the lung.  The only way that can happen is by impacting the outer surface of the rib and then driving through the rib from the outer surface sending bone pieces inward.