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Author Topic: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?  (Read 7805 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2021, 04:20:34 AM »
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Its also doubtful JFK could have got his own civil rights agenda passed in his second term.

The assassination helped LBJ get them through.

Yes, this is true. It certainly would have been a tougher road to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voters Rights Act of 1965 passed any time in the 1960ís if President Kennedy was not assassinated.

Just as the assassination of the Pro Civil Rights President Lincoln allowed the passage of the 14th and 15th amendments so the assassination of the Pro Civil Rights President Kennedy (he became so in his last few months) allowed the passage of the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.

I remember, as a child, hearing that it was impossible for anything like the Civil Rights Act to ever pass. If one determined Southern Senator filibustered against it, there was nothing even a super majority of Senators could do. Well, it turned out, that was false. A super majority could overcome one or even several filibustering Senators, under the rules of the Senate, if they were determined enough. Up until 1964, the majority were only pretending to try but didnít really want it to pass.

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2021, 04:20:34 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2021, 04:23:13 AM »
Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?

Thatís kind of like asking: Were the Elders of Zion were Honest Men?

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2021, 05:06:36 AM »
The evidence clearly indicates that the men who were the main plotters behind the JFK assassination were rogue high-level elements in the CIA and the military. (The next level or two down from this top brass of plotters included elements of the Mafia, the anti-Castro Cubans, and the Dallas Police Department.)

I think one could make a good argument that the conspirators were sincere patriots who believed JFK was being reckless in his dealings with the Soviet Union, who believed he was going to abandon South Vietnam to the Communists, and who were alarmed by his abandonment of all efforts to overthrow Castro.

I think the plotters also believed that JFK was squandering the opportunity to destroy the Soviet Union once and for all with a nuclear first strike. It is beyond question that elements in the CIA and the military attempted to use the assassination as an excuse to provoke an all-out nuclear attack on Russia.

What about the rule of law and the immorality and illegality of assassinating a sitting president? The plotters believed that JFK's actions and avowed goals justified taking the extraordinary step of assassination. I think one of the main reasons they engaged in such a massive cover-up was to preserve America's image as the world's most stable and noble democratic republic.

I believe that the plotters were sincere patriots, and that in their minds they were acting in the best interests of the country and the world. This is not to exonerate them, but it is to say that they believed they were doing what had to be done to protect and advance America and the cause of freedom around the world.

Sounds like a bunch of QAnon crap. Plotters, murderers, insurrectionists are not "patriots". Only in their deranged diseased minds do they think they are.     

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2021, 05:06:36 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2021, 01:27:39 PM »
When you say the CIA did it....You might as well say the Brotherhood of Sicilian Associates ....Because it means nothing.  If you're saying that Dulles and Bissell were ring leaders, then I would agree.... But neither of them were officially employed by the CIA at the time of the Coup.

I don't think Dulles was involved. The evidence points to Helms, Angleton, Phillips, etc. etc.

I think many people in power believed JFK deserved to die because of his intent to withdraw from South Vietnam, his peace overtures to the Soviet Union, his intent to leave Castro in power, the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, and his sexual immorality.

JFK was listening to the wrong people when it came to the situation in Vietnam.



« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 01:36:12 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2021, 05:37:50 PM »
I don't think Dulles was involved. The evidence points to Helms, Angleton, Phillips, etc. etc.

I think many people in power believed JFK deserved to die because of his intent to withdraw from South Vietnam, his peace overtures to the Soviet Union, his intent to leave Castro in power, the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, and his sexual immorality.

JFK was listening to the wrong people when it came to the situation in Vietnam.

The evidence points to Helms, Angleton, Phillips, etc. etc.

It's very difficult to "pin the tail on the donkey" in the correct place when you're blindfolded.  There's absolutely no doubt that the donkey needs the tail, but putting it in the right place is impossible when you're blindfolded.   We know that there was a conspiracy behind the murder of JFK.....But we don't know where to pin the responsibility....

It should be obvious that the reason that we are blind is because LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover had control of the investigation. 

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2021, 05:37:50 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2021, 04:35:17 PM »
The evidence points to Helms, Angleton, Phillips, etc. etc.

It's very difficult to "pin the tail on the donkey" in the correct place when you're blindfolded.  There's absolutely no doubt that the donkey needs the tail, but putting it in the right place is impossible when you're blindfolded.   We know that there was a conspiracy behind the murder of JFK.....But we don't know where to pin the responsibility....

It should be obvious that the reason that we are blind is because LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover had control of the investigation.

I would encourage you to read the books I recommended on the RFK assassination. In that case, the evidence pretty clearly indicates that Helms and Angleton were major players.

In the JFK case, the evidence overwhelmingly points in the direction of Helms and Phillips.

I think the evidence that has surfaced from LBJ's taped phone calls indicates that he was not a part of the plot, unless he was a very good actor who was putting on a show in the event that his tapes ever got released.

Another point to consider is that LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
I would encourage you to read the books I recommended on the RFK assassination. In that case, the evidence pretty clearly indicates that Helms and Angleton were major players.

In the JFK case, the evidence overwhelmingly points in the direction of Helms and Phillips.

I think the evidence that has surfaced from LBJ's taped phone calls indicates that he was not a part of the plot, unless he was a very good actor who was putting on a show in the event that his tapes ever got released.

Another point to consider is that LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ learned that Russia had put it's nuclear bombers in the air immediately after the murder of President Kennedy. ( I'm sure that you know that JFK was communicating with Khuershev and Castor outside channels, And Nikita knew that John Kennedy was having trouble keeping the militant militarists at the Pentagon in line.    Many were furious that General Cabell had got the axe after the BOP.   The majority of them old war hawks had thought that JFK should have sent US forces against Castro at the BOP,  and they also thought that JFK should have attacked Russian ships during the missile crisis in the autumn of 62.  And then launched nuclear missiles against Russia. )   

LBJ knew that Russia had the finger on the nuclear trigger.....so he didn't want any hint that the US was going to rashly blame the Russians for the murder of JFK as the old war hawks believed.   LBJ KNEW that the Russians weren't involved.

On Saturday morning 11/23 63 Gordon Shanklin the FBI SAC of the Dallas office told the assembled FBI agents....Quote" Washington does not want any of you to ask questions about the Soviet aspect of this case. Washington was does not want to upset the public"  the referral to "Washington" did not mean FBI headquarters, for Shanklin "Washington" was shorthand for the White House.    Unquote   From FBI agent James Hosty's book Assassignment : Oswald

Please understand that I doubt that the plot to murder JFK originated with LBJ..... But he was privy to the plot, because he had learned of the plot from J. Edgar Hoover, whose FBI agents had uncovered the plot.   Neither Hoover nor LBJ did anything to foil the plot.  They conspired to keep the plot secret and aided and abetted the  plotters .

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Were the JFK Assassination Plotters Sincere Patriots?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2021, 05:26:29 PM »
LBJ clearly refused to go along with the plotters' effort to use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or to attack the Soviet Union. If he had been part of the plot, it's hard to imagine that he would have opposed that crucial component of the conspirators' plans.

LBJ learned that Russia had put it's nuclear bombers in the air immediately after the murder of President Kennedy. ( I'm sure that you know that JFK was communicating with Khuershev and Castor outside channels, And Nikita knew that John Kennedy was having trouble keeping the militant militarists at the Pentagon in line.    Many were furious that General Cabell had got the axe after the BOP.   The majority of them old war hawks had thought that JFK should have sent US forces against Castro at the BOP,  and they also thought that JFK should have attacked Russian ships during the missile crisis in the autumn of 62.  And then launched nuclear missiles against Russia. )   

LBJ knew that Russia had the finger on the nuclear trigger.....so he didn't want any hint that the US was going to rashly blame the Russians for the murder of JFK as the old war hawks believed.   LBJ KNEW that the Russians weren't involved.

On Saturday morning 11/23 63 Gordon Shanklin the FBI SAC of the Dallas office told the assembled FBI agents....Quote" Washington does not want any of you to ask questions about the Soviet aspect of this case. Washington was does not want to upset the public"  the referral to "Washington" did not mean FBI headquarters, for Shanklin "Washington" was shorthand for the White House.    Unquote   From FBI agent James Hosty's book Assassignment : Oswald

Please understand that I doubt that the plot to murder JFK originated with LBJ..... But he was privy to the plot, because he had learned of the plot from J. Edgar Hoover, whose FBI agents had uncovered the plot.   Neither Hoover nor LBJ did anything to foil the plot.  They conspired to keep the plot secret and aided and abetted the  plotters.

But the American militarists were thrilled that the Soviets had put nuke bombers in the air, giving them the perfect excuse to launch a full strike on Russia, but LBJ would have none of it.

Also, crucially, LBJ worked mightily to shut down Helms, Scott, etc., from publicly, and even privately, pointing the finger at Castro. Douglass covers this in some detail.

It is clear that the plotters planted evidence pointing to Castro in the hope of using JFK's death as an excuse to topple Castro. But when their media assets barely began to "reveal" this evidence, LBJ stomped down hard and virtually silenced such efforts. LBJ and Hoover also read the riot act to the CIA to stop pushing the narrative that Oswald was a Cuban agent and/or that Castro was behind the assassination.

Again, if LBJ had been part of the plot, he would have done all in his power to push the Helms-Phillips-Scott narrative, but instead he crushed it.