Then went inside with the curtain rods

[Alan Ford]

How would Frazier have any knowledge of the garage contents?

What about your previous suggestion that Mr Oswald had told Mr Frazier about there being curtain rods in the garage?

[Dan O'meara]

 

Not necessarily on 3/23/64

= shorthand for 'Agent Howlett made sure they were never seen again'

 

Surprisingly well, Mr O'Meara! 

Excellent.
So let's see if I can take it a step further.



On the 15th the rods are submitted.
Using a red pen Day fills in the details:

Date of submission etc.
The description of what has been submitted.
The "Examination Request" - "Check for prints"
His signature to confirm he received the specimen.
Howlett signs as the officer submitting the specimen.

Once he has completed his examination he writes the result at the bottom.
After this the two documents are separated and filled in differently.

Still on track?

[Dan O'meara]

What about your previous suggestion that Mr Oswald had told Mr Frazier about there being curtain rods in the garage?

How does that answer Colin's question:

"Was Oswald fearful of Frazier's knowledge of the garage contents?"

I assumed this meant if Oswald was fearful of Frazier's knowledge of the garage contents prior to mentioning the curtain rods.
To be honest, I'm not sure I actually understand the question.

[Colin Crow]

Without BWF and LMR there is no long package/curtain rod story.
As I understand it, the police were linking Oswald to the rifle and the rifle to the long bag before BWF and LMR say anything about it.
The first recorded mention of the long bag is when LMR goes up to Adamcik and tells him about it (I'm assuming that she also tells him about Frazier visiting his step-dad in the hospital at this time.)

Detective Montgomery is photographed leaving the TSBD with the bag around 3:00pm. I don't know if he was also filmed or if these images were broadcast.

Frazier insists he was in the hospital only a short time before being arrested which indicates he could have been at home as late as 4:45pm.

I have repeatedly provided links to Frazier's HSCA interview here. They contain valuable info. Once piece is that after he left home his mother was visited by cops and she told them where he was.

Another clip contains phrasing that suggests the curtain rods only came after questioning by police about a long package..

Adamcik doesn’t even mention his exchange with LMR in his solo report. LMR mentions nothing about curtain rods in the Rose,Stovall, Adamcik report, although she was told of them the previous evening.

There was communication between Irving and Dallas that afternoon. Some questions that a cop might ask. Did Oswald own a rifle? Where is it stored? Did you see him leave with a long paper package this morning?

The last one is relevant to LMR and Frazier's mother.

[John Iacoletti]

The point I'm making is that he would have no reason to deny bringing curtain rods to work.

Maybe it was the truth.  All we have to go on that Oswald ever even mentioned curtain rods is Frazier's say-so.

If curtain rods had been found at some point it would be of some significance

That's why Alan is pursuing his hypothesis.  If curtain rods were found in the Paine garage on March 23 and had never been moved, then what curtain rods were submitted into evidence on March 15, and where were they found?

Agreed. It's just another of those small pieces. Significance is put on Oswald breaking his routine the night before the assassination because he had a rifle stowed in the Paine garage and it was established a rifle was used in the assassination. Breaking his routine to collect curtain rods seems like a  excuse when he could have got them Friday night. Through various testimonies it was established the curtain rods were still there but the rifle was missing. This is of great significance to those who believe Oswald was involved in the assassination.

I know it is.  Because they will glom on to any little speculation and conjecture and call it "evidence".  Curtain rods could very well be a "BS excuse", but it doesn't just follow that it is a BS excuse for fetching a rifle to kill the president.  And no, we don't actually know that he "had a rifle stowed in the Paine garage" on the 21st.  That's an assumption too.

Turning to Mr Von Pein:

That's your first mistake.  He's a propagandist.

"Mrs. Johnson stated that when the Dallas, Texas, Police searched this room following Oswald's arrest, they bent the rod which held the drapes and curtains. Consequently, she stated, she had the old rod taken down and replaced it with a traverse rod and aqua-colored acetate drapes. A traverse rod and acetate drapes replaced the lace curtain which was on the end wall window."

Admittedly, the photo is of poor quality, but those look like the old lace curtains to me.  And "she had the old rod taken down" implies that she didn't do that herself.  This doesn't look at all like what Johnson is quoted as describing in J. Edgar's helpful memo.

[John Iacoletti]

If Oswald carried the rifle with him to work that day he would need to have some kind of excuse ready as Frazier would surely ask about it. It could have been anything that was long and thin.

Since we like to play the "why didn't Oswald do X" game around here....

Oswald typically brought his laundry to the Paine house to be done over the weekends.  If Oswald wanted to bring a rifle, why didn't he bring it inside a duffel bag filled with laundry?  No need to steal paper and tape from work.  No need to make up an excuse for something long and thin.  No need to do anything that departed from his usual routine or that would be noteworthy to anybody.

Oswald had a lot of his belongings in the garage, including his rifle,

You still don't know that for a fact.

and had spent time in there

Evidence that he spent time in the Paine garage?

which would have given him the opportunity to come across the curtain rods that had been on the shelf since long before he and Marina arrived at the Paine house.

Come across how?  They were wrapped in paper and sealed with sticky tape.

[John Iacoletti]

As I understand it, the police were linking Oswald to the rifle and the rifle to the long bag before BWF and LMR say anything about it.

No, there was nothing whatsoever linking Oswald to that rifle on Friday.  And there still isn't anything linking any rifle to the long bag.

[Walt Cakebread]

Maybe it was the truth.  All we have to go on that Oswald ever even mentioned curtain rods is Frazier's say-so.

That's why Alan is pursuing his hypothesis.  If curtain rods were found in the Paine garage on March 23 and had never been moved, then what curtain rods were submitted into evidence on March 15, and where were they found?

I know it is.  Because they will glom on to any little speculation and conjecture and call it "evidence".  Curtain rods could very well be a "BS excuse", but it doesn't just follow that it is a BS excuse for fetching a rifle to kill the president.  And no, we don't actually know that he "had a rifle stowed in the Paine garage" on the 21st.  That's an assumption too.

That's your first mistake.  He's a propagandist.

Admittedly, the photo is of poor quality, but those look like the old lace curtains to me.  And "she had the old rod taken down" implies that she didn't do that herself.  This doesn't look at all like what Johnson is quoted as describing in J. Edgar's helpful memo.

That's your first mistake.  He's a propagandist.

That's correct....Do not fall into Von Pein's trap.....