Then went inside with the curtain rods


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Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 04:34:44 AM »
What Dallas Police officer says “Date Submitted”, March 15, on this form means when the object was picked up?
Could it mean something else, like when a request to pick up the object is made?

Where does it say the curtain rods were picked up on March 23?
Specimen released “3-24-64” seems reasonable, the curtain rods were released after they were picked up?

And if it does mean what you say, object picked up on March 15, 1964, but it really wasn’t, it’s not like I never heard of anyone filling in the wrong information on a report.
And what would be the purpose of filling in the wrong date when the object was picked up?

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 04:34:44 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2021, 11:23:29 AM »
What Dallas Police officer says “Date Submitted”, March 15, on this form means when the object was picked up?[
Could it mean something else, like when a request to pick up the object is made?

No, Mr Bono-----unless, that is, one is happy for one's research to be part of the culture in which facts themselves are manipulated, and even manufactured.

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Where does it say the curtain rods were picked up on March 23?

Read Ms Ruth Paine's WC testimony at her home!

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Specimen released “3-24-64” seems reasonable, the curtain rods were released after they were picked up?

Not if they were submitted before being picked up.

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And if it does mean what you say,

No, it means what it says: "submitted"----------your creative semantics here are a lost cause

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object picked up on March 15, 1964, but it really wasn’t, it’s not like I never heard of anyone filling in the wrong information on a report.

If "Lt. Day must have confused 23 March with 15 March" is the best you can do, then you're obviously comfortable with a culture in which facts themselves are manipulated, and even manufactured.

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And what would be the purpose of filling in the wrong date when the object was picked up?

Who said it was the wrong date? These two curtain rods were submitted for fingerprint examination on 15 March---------------8 days before Ms Paine's testimony at her home.

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2021, 07:20:05 PM »

Read Ms Ruth Paine's WC testimony at her home!

Ms. Paine’s testimony goes on for pages and pages spread over many volumes. I always provide links to my claims.

Which Volume number did she talk about the curtain rods being picked up? Which page number?

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2021, 07:20:05 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2021, 08:00:41 PM »
What Dallas Police officer says “Date Submitted”, March 15, on this form means when the object was picked up?
Could it mean something else, like when a request to pick up the object is made?

Where does it say the curtain rods were picked up on March 23?
Specimen released “3-24-64” seems reasonable, the curtain rods were released after they were picked up?

And if it does mean what you say, object picked up on March 15, 1964, but it really wasn’t, it’s not like I never heard of anyone filling in the wrong information on a report.
And what would be the purpose of filling in the wrong date when the object was picked up?

What Dallas Police officer says “Date Submitted”, March 15, on this form means when the object was picked up?
Could it mean something else, like when a request to pick up the object is made?


No, I don't think it could mean that. The document shown was used to submit evidence to the Identification Bureau of the DPD. So, in this case it means that Officer Howell submitted 2 curtain rods, to the Identification Bureau on 3/15/64 at 9:45 AM.

The document also says that Howell picked up the curtain rods on 3/24/64 from the Identifaction Bureau, where they were released to him by Lt Day.

Which leaves two questions to be answered;

1. When were the curtain rods picked up at Ruth Paine's house? I couldn't find the answer in Ruth Paine's testimony, but maybe I overlooked it

2. Why would Howell need to collect the curtain rods on 3/24/64?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 08:31:17 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2021, 08:51:08 PM »
What Dallas Police officer says “Date Submitted”, March 15, on this form means when the object was picked up?

The document shown was used to submit evidence to the Identification Bureau of the DPD. So, in this case it means that Officer Howell submitted the evidence, in this case 2 curtain rods, to the Identification Bureau on 3/15/64 at 9:45 AM.

John Howlett was a Secret Service man ....and one of the creators of the video that is supposed to prove that Lee Oswald could have murdered JFK by ambushing him from the sixth floor window, and then scurrying to the NW corner and hastily dumping the carcano behind a row of boxes before charging unseen down the stairs to the second floor lunchroom where DPD officer Marrion Baker encountered him less than two minutes after the FIRST shot was fired.  The video that Howlett and the WC cover up committee created is a gross distortion of evidence.   The WC said that Howlett carried a carcano from the SE corner window to the NW corner and concealed the rifle behind the boxes before he walked down the stairs to the 2nd floor lunchroom.  The video clearly shows that Howlett did NOT carry a rifle from the SE corner and carefully conceal it behind a row of boxes...Howlett was carrying a 3 foot long piece of 1 X 3 lumber which probably weighed less than a half pound and he slid it into a narrow crack behind some boxes at the head of the stairs.  A mannlicher carcano would NOT have fit in that crack because the sling and bolt handle would have prevented the insertion  of the rifle into that crack.

Howlett was one of the cover up men....so he shouldn't be believed about the curtain rods. 

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2021, 09:49:26 PM »
WCH volume IX, pages 421-425

This testimony took place at Ruth Paine's house at at 7:30 p.m., on March 23, 1964.  At that time the curtain rods were in her garage and Ruth said that as far as she knew they had been in the same place since November 21, 1963.

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2021, 09:49:26 PM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2021, 11:32:15 PM »
John Howlett was a Secret Service man ....and one of the creators of the video that is supposed to prove that Lee Oswald could have murdered JFK by ambushing him from the sixth floor window, and then scurrying to the NW corner and hastily dumping the carcano behind a row of boxes before charging unseen down the stairs to the second floor lunchroom where DPD officer Marrion Baker encountered him less than two minutes after the FIRST shot was fired.  The video that Howlett and the WC cover up committee created is a gross distortion of evidence.   The WC said that Howlett carried a carcano from the SE corner window to the NW corner and concealed the rifle behind the boxes before he walked down the stairs to the 2nd floor lunchroom.  The video clearly shows that Howlett did NOT carry a rifle from the SE corner and carefully conceal it behind a row of boxes...Howlett was carrying a 3 foot long piece of 1 X 3 lumber which probably weighed less than a half pound and he slid it into a narrow crack behind some boxes at the head of the stairs.  A mannlicher carcano would NOT have fit in that crack because the sling and bolt handle would have prevented the insertion  of the rifle into that crack.

Howlett was one of the cover up men....so he shouldn't be believed about the curtain rods.

Walt, if Ruth Paine was correct in her testimony about the curtain rods being in her garage between November 21, 1963 and March 23, 1964, then Alan Ford is correct in asking for an explanation how Howlett was able to submit curtain rods to the DPD Identification Bureau on March 15, 1963.

As I see it, there are two options;

(1) the curtain rods submitted by Howlett on March 15, 1964 did not come from Ruth Paine's garage (in which it can be speculated that they possibly came from the TSBD, as Howlett wanted them tested for fingerprints) or

(2) the curtain rods were removed from Ruth Paine's garage earlier, without her knowing about it, and returned on March 24, 1964 (which, in turn, could explain why Howlett collected them from the Identification Bureau on that same day).


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2021, 12:05:31 AM »
Walt, if Ruth Paine was correct in her testimony about the curtain rods being in her garage between November 21, 1963 and March 23, 1964, then Alan Ford is correct in asking for an explanation how Howlett was able to submit curtain rods to the DPD Identification Bureau on March 15, 1963.

As I see it, there are two options;

(1) the curtain rods submitted by Howlett on March 15, 1964 did not come from Ruth Paine's garage (in which it can be speculated that they possibly came from the TSBD, as Howlett wanted them tested for fingerprints) or

(2) the curtain rods were removed from Ruth Paine's garage earlier, without her knowing about it, and returned on March 24, 1964 (which, in turn, could explain why Howlett collected them from the Identification Bureau on that same day).

The problem with this latter option, Mr Weidmann, is that it would mean that every single part of the following on-the-record exchange at the Paine residence on 23 March would have to be a pure invention:

Mr. JENNER - Is there another shelf below the shelf on which you found the first two packages?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; there is.
Mr. JENNER - And, Mr. Howlett, that shelf is about how far below the upper one on which we found the two packages?
Agent HOWLETT - About 10 1/2 inches.
Mr. JENNER - Now, we all see, do we not, peeking up what appears to be a butt end of what we might call a curtain rod, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - That's correct.
Mr. JENNER - Is that correct, Mr. Howlett?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. JENNER - Painted or enameled white?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - Would you reach back there and take out what appears to be a curtain rod, Mr. Howlett-- how many do you have there?
Agent HOWLETT - There are two curtain rods, one a white and the other a kind of buff color or cream colored.
Mr. JENNER - Now, would you please search the rest of that shelf and see if you can find any other curtain rods or anything similar to the curtain rods, and look on the bottom shelves, Mr. Howlett, will you please?
While he is doing that, Mrs. Paine, I notice there is on your garage floor what looks like a file casing you have for documents similar, at least it seems substantially identical to those that we had in Washington last week.
Mrs. PAINE - This is a filing case similar, yes, slightly different in color to one that you had in Washington. It contains madrigal music. It was on November 22 at the apartment where my husband was living.
Agent HOWLETT - I have just finished searching both shelves and I don't find any other curtain rods.
Mr. JENNER - Mrs. Paine, are the curtain rods that Mr. Howlett has taken down from the lower of the two shelves, the two curtain rods to which you made reference in your testimony before the Commission last week?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; they are.
Mr. JENNER - And you know of no other curtain rods, do you, in your garage during the fall of 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I do not.
Mr. JENNER - And in particular, no other curtain rods in your garage at any time on the 21st or 22d of November 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - None whatsoever.
Mr. JENNER - May we take these curtain rods and mark them as exhibits and we will return them after they have been placed of record?
Mrs. PAINE - All right.
Mr. JENNER - Miss Reporter, the cream colored curtain rod, we will mark Ruth Paine Exhibit 275 and the white one as Ruth Paine Exhibit No. 276.

(The curtain rods referred to were at this time marked by the reporter as Ruth Paine Exhibit Nos. 275 and 276, for identification.)

Mr. JENNER - Since we will have the exact physical exhibits we don't have to measure them, but perhaps for somebody who is reading the record, Mr. Howlett, your suggestion that we measure them is not a bad one. Let me describe the configuration of these rods. They are very light weight--what would you say that metal is, Mr. Howlett, tin--heavy tin?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - They are the sliding or extension type, one fitting into the other when closed entirely, measuring from upended tip to upended tip they are----
Agent HOWLETT - The white one is 2 feet 3 1/2 inches.
Mr. JENNER - And the cream colored one measured in the like fashion?
Agent HOWLETT - It is 2 feet 3 1/2 inches.
Mr. JENNER - These curtain rods--the ends of each of them are turned. Those ends extending are turned up how many inches?
Agent HOWLETT - About 2 inches measuring from the inside of the curtain rod.
Mr. JENNER - On the cream colored one, and what about the white one?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes; on the cream colored one and the white one measures about 2 1/2 inches.
Mr. JENNER - Now, these curtain rods with the ends turned up form a "U," do they not, a long "U"?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2021, 12:06:21 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Then went inside with the curtain rods
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2021, 12:05:31 AM »


 

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