Lyndon Johnson for 2024

[Richard Smith]

How did he "admit" he was part of the coverup? He opined after learning about the plots against Castro in 1967 and AFTER the WC had conducted its investigation that he thought Castro was behind the assassination in retaliation for the plots against him ordered, in LBJ's opinion, by "the Kennedys."

How is that being part of a "coverup"? Of what? What did he do to "cover up" what happened? How is giving a view in 1967 that he thought Castro was behind it covering anything up?

Second: why would a amoral sociopath who has no conscience or concerns about anyone other than himself care about helping poor blacks who had no power? What was in it for him? A sociopath, certainly a white one, wouldn't give a damned about the "Negro" (to use the phrasing at that time). Hell, the white sociopaths in the South were killing and oppressing them not helping them.

I don't believe LBJ was any sort of sociopath either.  He was just an effective politician.  For many years he was among a handful of Southern democrats who precluded any federal civil rights legislation from advancing because that was in his interest when running for office in the South.  When he decided to run for president, however, he realized that no southerner could win a national election tainted with a segregationist background.  So he suddenly became an advocate of Civil Rights.  That was mostly a political calculation to advance his own interest.  He may have had some empathy for those living in the type of poverty that he grew up in - which included many poor blacks - but that was secondary to his own political agenda.  And that strategy has proven wildly successful for democrats to this day since they still get 80% percent or more of the black vote. Hard to remember now but after the Civil War most blacks considered themselves to be republicans for many decades. 

[Steve M. Galbraith]

I don't believe LBJ was any sort of sociopath either.  He was just an effective politician.  For many years he was among a handful of Southern democrats who precluded any federal civil rights legislation from advancing because that was in his interest when running for office in the South.  When he decided to run for president, however, he realized that no southerner could win a national election tainted with a segregationist background.  So he suddenly became an advocate of Civil Rights.  That was mostly a political calculation to advance his own interest.  He may have had some empathy for those living in the type of poverty that he grew up in - which included many poor blacks - but that was secondary to his own political agenda.  And that strategy has proven wildly successful for democrats to this day since they still get 80% percent or more of the black vote. Hard to remember now but after the Civil War most blacks considered themselves to be republicans for many decades.

He certainly lied repeatedly to the public about the war, about our progress there. H.R. McMaster's book on Vietnam, "Dereliction of Duty", is pretty devastating in its indictment of LBJ and McNamara and the Joint Chiefs for their dishonesty and arrogance. He argued that LBJ was worried more about the political ramifications of the war then about the war itself; that a withdrawal would hurt him politically and set back his "Great Society" programs. And, of course, Caro documents how he got the nickname "Lying Lyndon" while in college; he didn't begin telling untruths (I always liked that word <g>) after getting into politics.

Whether that constitutes being a "sociopath" can be debated I guess.

As to civil rights: I think he was sincere about the issue, that it was a moral question for him as well as a political one. Certainly it was a mix. But the '64 act alone was sufficient to earn him accolades. But he followed that up with another act in 1968, a Voting Rights act and a Fair Housing act. All of that was painting the legacy lily. Caro documented his experiences helping poor Mexicans and how that did affect him. He was a complex person; one that, as Caro showed, could be enormously cruel and mean and nasty but also who had, I think, a real empathy to poor and black Americans.

[Jon Banks]

Many politicians have some degree of sociopathy. It's very likely that Johnson was a sociopath.

People who crave power and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get it are often sociopaths.

"Dirty Tricks, Traffic Studies, And Why Sociopaths Flourish In Politics"

Sociopathy, a term that’s generally interchangeable with psychopathy, is not a form of insanity. It’s a spectrum of personality types classically centering on narcissistic self-importance, a willingness to manipulate others and the charm to do it effectively, and a perpetual habit of deflecting blame when their self-interested actions cause harm to others. This all stems from a basic lack of conscience, the defining trait of the sociopath...

The typical profile of a sociopath certainly suggests they’d flourish in politics. “Robert Hare, perhaps the leading expert on the disorder and the person who developed the most commonly used test for diagnosing psychopathy, has noted that psychopaths generally have a heightened need for power and prestige,” James Silver reported in the Atlantic, “exactly the type of urges that make politics an attractive calling.” Silver also notes that other typical sociopath traits, including fearlessness and strong competitive drives, make sociopaths likely to not only enter politics, but succeed in it...

“Politicians are more likely than people in the general population to be sociopaths,” Dr. Martha Stout, an eminent sociopathy researcher formerly of Harvard Medical School, told the Huffington Post. “I think you would find no expert in the field of sociopathy/psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder who would dispute this...”

https://archive.thinkprogress.org/dirty-tricks-traffic-studies-and-why-sociopaths-flourish-in-politics-b69c3253ec67/

[Jon Banks]

He certainly lied repeatedly to the public about the war, about our progress there. H.R. McMaster's book on Vietnam, "Dereliction of Duty", is pretty devastating in its indictment of LBJ and McNamara for their dishonesty. He argued that LBJ was worried more about the political ramifications of the war then about the war itself; that a withdrawal would hurt him politically and set back his "Great Society" programs.

Whether that constitutes being a "sociopath" can be debated I guess.

As to civil rights: I think he was sincere about the issue, that it was a moral question for him as well as a political one. The '64 act alone was sufficient. But he followed that up with another act in 1968, a voting rights act and a fair housing act. Caro documented his experiences helping poor Mexicans and how that did affect him. He was a complex person; one that, as Caro showed, could be enormously cruel and mean and nasty but also who had real empathy to poor and black Americans.

I don't know if it was genuine empathy. Like most politicians (and unlike Trump apparently), Johnson could probably fake empathy well enough to hid his true feelings about Blacks and other minorities. 

LBJ is a complex figure for those reasons. My point is that we shouldn't overlook the bad things about LBJ's character just because he did some good things. He was no saint. He was as corrupt as Richard Nixon if not more.

I understand that Caro has tried (and succeeded to some extent) to rescue Johnson's Presidential legacy. I agree that Johnsn should get more credit for Civil Rights and his anti-Poverty agenda.

I haven't seen any convincing evidence that Johnson was part of a conspiracy to kill JFK. But I wouldn't want him to be President today.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Many politicians have some degree of sociopathy. It's very likely that Johnson was a sociopath.

People who crave power and are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get it are often sociopaths.

One of the qualities of a sociopath, if not the main one, is an absence of a conscience. I don't think a person who did so much for black Americans would have no conscience at all. There was something in the plight of black people that I think affected him.

Did he do it only for his legacy? To gain praise? Nothing more?

To be sure, those who argue otherwise have a powerful argument. He could be, as Caro documents, just an appallingly nasty person. To Bird, to his friends, to the WH staff. Ugh, what a mean person.

[Jon Banks]

One of the qualities of a sociopath, if not the main one, is an absence of a conscience. I don't think a person who did so much for black Americans would have no conscience at all. There was something in the plight of black people that I think affected him.

Johnson wasn't always a supporter of Civil Rights. He took a long time to come around on that issue.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/apr/14/barack-obama/lyndon-johnson-opposed-every-civil-rights-proposal/


I'm not sure what changed his mind but even while serving in the White House and dealing with Civil Rights issues, he was cruel and overtly racist towards Black people.

He may not have been a psychopath (the most extreme form of sociopathy) but he did in fact have several of the main characteristics of sociopathy as many successful politicians do.

Also, you seem to be missing the point that sociopaths can be charming and show empathy when they need to in order to get what they want.

Did he do it only for his legacy? To gain praise? Nothing more?

To be sure, those who argue otherwise have a powerful argument. He could be, as Caro documents, just an appallingly nasty person. To Bird, to his friends, to the WH staff. Ugh, what a mean person.

Again, I think he was a brilliant politician and likely viewed the Great Society and Civil Rights as legacy projects that would put him among the greatest Presidents in history. FDR and the New Deal were still extremely popular in LBJ's time. Even many Republicans still supported the New Deal in the early-60s.

LBJ was an exceptionally skilled politician who also displayed bad character towards people who worked with him and had questionable ethics...

[Walt Cakebread]

Not true. 


...the talk turned to President Kennedy, and [Lyndon B.] Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. “I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger.” Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that “we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean.” A year or so before Kennedy’s death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn’t prove it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/08/lbj-oswald-wasnt-alone/309486/

Johnson said he never believed Oswald acted alone. Therefore, he was aware of facts that made him suspect there was a conspiracy yet he promoted the Warren Report for political reasons, to avoid a potential World War, and to give Americans closure.

I don't see how anyone today can still doubt that the US government chose to bury rather than fully investigate the conspiratorial leads in JFK's assassination. Johnson was part of that coverup.

You folks praising LBJ sound so naïve. He was a great politician but not a saint or an exceptional humanitarian...



Johnson was an overt racist and he had a huge ego like President Trump.

Even as president, Johnson's interpersonal relationships with blacks were marred by his prejudice. As longtime Jet correspondent Simeon Booker wrote in his memoir "Shocks the Conscience", early in his presidency, Johnson once lectured Booker after he authored a critical article for Jet Magazine, telling Booker he should "thank" Johnson for all he'd done for black people. In "Flawed Giant", Johnson biographer Robert Dallek writes that Johnson explained his decision to nominate Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court rather than a less famous black judge by saying, "when I appoint a nigger to the bench, I want everybody to know he's a nigger."

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism-msna305591


The fact that he accomplished things that JFK wanted to do but wasn't able to accomplish fed his ego and helped establish his Presidential legacy. He at least knew he was on the right side of history.

And LBJ's legacy would be on the level of FDR's if it wasn't marred by the Vietnam war.

He's among the most successful Presidents of the 20th Century but Vietnam is what gets remembered by Americans more than the Great Society...

I don't see how anyone today can still doubt that the US government chose to bury rather than fully investigate the conspiratorial leads in JFK's assassination. Johnson was part of that coverup.

You folks praising LBJ sound so naïve. He was a great politician but not a saint or an exceptional humanitarian...