Author Topic: The Bus Stop Farce  (Read 8951 times)

Online Denis Pointing

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2020, 08:57:59 PM »
Why do you believe that Aynesworth twisted this? What was the purpose? How can you say with any certainty that Mrs. Roberts didn’t actually tell Aynesworth she was sitting? She could have easily misspoken that detail instead of Aynesworth being incorrect.

Charles, Roberts' earlier affidavit, December 5, actually backs up Aynesworth: "On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:00 pm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination"

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Roberts_aff.pdf

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2020, 09:14:53 PM »

If you read the rest of the affidavit she says “About 30 minutes later three policemen came to the house.” 

30-minutes - LOL. She remembers everything so well...

What's that got to do with her not seeing where Oswald went after seeing him standing at the bus top
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 09:20:00 PM by Bill Chapman »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2020, 09:18:56 PM »
What's that got to do with not seeing where Oswald went after seeing him standing at the bus top

I am pointing out her apparent  lack of an accurate memory of the events. And indicating that I believe Hugh Aynesworth’s notes are more accurate than her memory 13-days afterwards.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2020, 10:22:04 PM »
The anybody but LHO crowd likes to believe that LHO actually stood at the bus stop near his rooming house when he left it a little after 1:00 on 11/22/63. And they point this out as part of their argument claiming that LHO couldn’t have traveled on foot the distance to the Tippit murder scene in time to get there before Tippit was murdered.

Here is a quote from a photograph of the actual typewritten notes by Hugh Aynesworth written in May of 1964 for The Dallas Morning News and published in a book titled “The Reporters’ Notes by The Dallas Morning News published in 2013.

“Mrs. Roberts recalled the now star-boarder running in about 1 p.m. as she sat watching the TV coverage of the assassination. “Boy you’re in a hurry,” she said. He hasn’t replied yet. She told us Oswald (Mr. Lee as she knew him) had hesitated at the front of the house a moment, then started running down Beckley Street south.

So, the later claims by Mrs. Roberts that LHO went to the bus stop and waited there for a while are (quite obviously to me) not true. She may believe that he did, but it is apparent that her later memory is false. Her fresh recollection (given to Aynesworth and the others just hours after the event) of LHO running south on Beckley, and no mention of the bus stop, are bound to be more accurate than her later one. Our memories are reconstructions (unlike taped re-runs) based on associations. It is easy to understand how Mrs. Roberts could mistakenly associate another memory (of LHO standing at the bus stop at another time) as part of what she remembered of 11/22/63. We all have mistakenly remembered a few things wrong from time to time. And we only realize it when we encounter evidence contrary to our memories. So, it probably happens to all of us more often than we think it does.

Some of you will cling to Mrs. Roberts’ false memory account and say that it is true. But I am convinced otherwise. I always have felt this way. But now have firm evidence to support my conclusion.

Whether Roberts saw Oswald standing at the bus stop or not is of very little significance. Roberts tells us that when Oswald came in she was trying to get the television to work to watch the news at 1 o'clock and that he left again after about 3 minutes.
We also know from the Gary Mack time trial that the fastest route between Beckley and 10th street took 11 minutes to walk.

Combined this means that Oswald couldn't have gotten to 10th street until 1.12 pm at the earliest. Add on two minutes for a short conversation with Tippit and the events that followed and you've got a shooting at 1.14 pm.

The problem is there is convincing circumstantial evidence to justify the conclusion that the actual time of the shooting most likely was between 1.06 and 1.10. For instance, Markham said she took the same bus, on Jefferson, every day at approx 1.15 pm, which of course means that she would have been at the bus stop at the time of the shooting and thus couldn't have been at 10th street at 1.14 to witness it.

So, you see, the whole point of Oswald waiting at the bus stop or not is really a trivial matter. 

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2020, 10:46:02 PM »
Whether Roberts saw Oswald standing at the bus stop or not is of very little significance. Roberts tells us that when Oswald came in she was trying to get the television to work to watch the news at 1 o'clock and that he left again after about 3 minutes.
We also know from the Gary Mack time trial that the fastest route between Beckley and 10th street took 11 minutes to walk.

Combined this means that Oswald couldn't have gotten to 10th street until 1.12 pm at the earliest. Add on two minutes for a short conversation with Tippit and the events that followed and you've got a shooting at 1.14 pm.

The problem is there is convincing circumstantial evidence to justify the conclusion that the actual time of the shooting most likely was between 1.06 and 1.10. For instance, Markham said she took the same bus, on Jefferson, every day at approx 1.15 pm, which of course means that she would have been at the bus stop at the time of the shooting and thus couldn't have been at 10th street at 1.14 to witness it.

So, you see, the whole point of Oswald waiting at the bus stop or not is really a trivial matter.

It never ceases to amaze what the naysayers believe...

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2020, 12:33:22 AM »
There is no doubt in my mind that he took notes of what Earlene Roberts said as she said it.

That may be so, but there's no evidence that it's actually true.

Nor is there any good reason to believe that Aynesworth's May 1964 account is more accurate than Roberts' own April 1964 account.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2020, 02:02:35 AM »
That may be so, but there's no evidence that it's actually true.

Nor is there any good reason to believe that Aynesworth's May 1964 account is more accurate than Roberts' own April 1964 account.

Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Aynesworth is still around. If you yourself went to his house and he dug out his 11/22/63 handwritten notes from a pile of dusty old boxes right in front of your eyes. There is no good reason to believe that you wouldn’t say that there isn’t any good reason to believe that Aynesworth’s notes were authentic.

You are like a broken record. Same thing over and over again...

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2020, 09:46:50 AM »
It never ceases to amaze what the naysayers believe...

It never ceases to amaze how much factual evidence LNs are willing to overlook to keep Oswald in play as the lone gunman.

According to the FBI, the departure times for Markham's bus on Jefferson were 1.12 and 1.22. Markham herself estimated the time to be 1.15. You can't explain how she possibly could have watched a shooting at 10th street if that shooting happened at 1.14 or 1.15.

Get back to me when you have a plausible answer....
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 09:53:44 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2020, 02:21:08 PM »
It never ceases to amaze what the naysayers believe...

Yes, it is laughable.  Only if a CTer went back in a time machine with a stop watch could they come up with that level of specificity of events down to the minute.  The fact remains that several people put Oswald at the scene of the Tippit murder.  If he was there, then the timing issue is not relevant.  However he got there, he was there.  That's all that matters.   And there is no doubt of that.  CTers want to go down various rabbit holes with baseless claims like "add on two minutes for a short conversation with Tippit." And bus departure times as though those couldn't vary and are accurate down to the minute.  But then dismiss anything they do not like as the product of "speculation."  LOL. There is zero doubt that Oswald murdered Tippit.  It's just the same old song and dance.  Very tiresome.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2020, 04:24:36 PM »
Yes, it is laughable.  Only if a CTer went back in a time machine with a stop watch could they come up with that level of specificity of events down to the minute.  The fact remains that several people put Oswald at the scene of the Tippit murder.  If he was there, then the timing issue is not relevant.  However he got there, he was there.  That's all that matters.   And there is no doubt of that.  CTers want to go down various rabbit holes with baseless claims like "add on two minutes for a short conversation with Tippit." And bus departure times as though those couldn't vary and are accurate down to the minute.  But then dismiss anything they do not like as the product of "speculation."  LOL. There is zero doubt that Oswald murdered Tippit.  It's just the same old song and dance.  Very tiresome.


Yes, it is laughable.  Only if a CTer went back in a time machine with a stop watch could they come up with that level of specificity of events down to the minute.  The fact remains that several people put Oswald at the scene of the Tippit murder.  If he was there, then the timing issue is not relevant.   

Pathetic. When witness testimony is not to a LN's liking, the witnesses are unreliable. When circumstantial evidence does not support the LN's case, the witnesses suddenly become reliable, except of course for those who say something that does not fit the narrative.

But thanks for proving the point I made earlier;

It never ceases to amaze how much factual evidence LNs are willing to overlook to keep Oswald in play as the lone gunman.

However he got there, he was there.  That's all that matters.

It's all that matters in your mixed up world, that's for sure, but in the real world, when there is evidence that a suspect could not physically have been at a particular place, at a particular time, to commit the crime, there is no opportunity to commit the murder, regardless of what witnesses say and believe they saw.

CTers want to go down various rabbit holes with baseless claims like "add on two minutes for a short conversation with Tippit." And bus departure times as though those couldn't vary and are accurate down to the minute.

More idiocy. We know that Tippit's killer talked to the officer after being called over. The man walking towards the passenger door of the car, talking to Tippit and the latter getting out of the car and walk to the front all takes time. Two minutes is a fair assumption, but even if it only took one, it still doesn't matter for the timeline.

The departure times for the bus did probably vary, which is why the FBI found that the schedule said the bus stopped at Jefferson at 1.12. and 1.22. Markham estimated she took the bus at 1.15. That could be either a delayed 1.12 bus of simply the 1.22 bus. It is of no relevance which bus it was. What is relevant is that Markham could not witness a shooting at 10th street at 1.14 or 1.15 when in fact she would already have been at the bus stop. If that's too much logic for you, I'm sorry, I can't fix stupid!

Btw I saw you complaining about applied logic in the matter of the bus stop, but what I did not see was an explanation for Markham allegedly still being at 10th street at 1.14 / 1.15 when she herself said she took her daily bus on Jefferson at 1.15. You don't even try to explain it for an obvious reason; you can't!

But then dismiss anything they do not like as the product of "speculation."  LOL.

Like what? Give one example.... I bet you can't.

There is zero doubt that Oswald murdered Tippit. 

Than prove it..... I bet you can't. But then, for everything you believe there is zero doubt in your mind. Just like Trump winning the election LOL
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 06:04:22 PM by Martin Weidmann »

 

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