Author Topic: The Bus Stop Farce  (Read 8953 times)

Offline Charles Collins

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The Bus Stop Farce
« on: November 18, 2020, 04:18:02 PM »
The anybody but LHO crowd likes to believe that LHO actually stood at the bus stop near his rooming house when he left it a little after 1:00 on 11/22/63. And they point this out as part of their argument claiming that LHO couldn’t have traveled on foot the distance to the Tippit murder scene in time to get there before Tippit was murdered.

Here is a quote from a photograph of the actual typewritten notes by Hugh Aynesworth written in May of 1964 for The Dallas Morning News and published in a book titled “The Reporters’ Notes by The Dallas Morning News published in 2013.

“Mrs. Roberts recalled the now star-boarder running in about 1 p.m. as she sat watching the TV coverage of the assassination. “Boy you’re in a hurry,” she said. He hasn’t replied yet. She told us Oswald (Mr. Lee as she knew him) had hesitated at the front of the house a moment, then started running down Beckley Street south.

So, the later claims by Mrs. Roberts that LHO went to the bus stop and waited there for a while are (quite obviously to me) not true. She may believe that he did, but it is apparent that her later memory is false. Her fresh recollection (given to Aynesworth and the others just hours after the event) of LHO running south on Beckley, and no mention of the bus stop, are bound to be more accurate than her later one. Our memories are reconstructions (unlike taped re-runs) based on associations. It is easy to understand how Mrs. Roberts could mistakenly associate another memory (of LHO standing at the bus stop at another time) as part of what she remembered of 11/22/63. We all have mistakenly remembered a few things wrong from time to time. And we only realize it when we encounter evidence contrary to our memories. So, it probably happens to all of us more often than we think it does.

Some of you will cling to Mrs. Roberts’ false memory account and say that it is true. But I am convinced otherwise. I always have felt this way. But now have firm evidence to support my conclusion.

Offline Louis Earl

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 05:51:19 PM »
Devil's advocate.  After 57 years this is the first I can recall reading anthing that direcly contradicts Roberts' story of seeing LHO standing at the bus stop.  Not only that, it quotes Roberts as saying something entirely different, i.e., that LHO (after hesitating) went off RUNNING south on Beckley.  No one saw LHO on the walk from the boarding house to 10th and Patton much less saw LHO running anywhere.  A man standing at a bus stop is easier to miss than a man running on a residential street.

If I read the OP correctly, Aynesworth waited 6 months from the interview with Roberts to make his handwritten notes, so how do we know he correctly remembered what she said? 

Since the running story fits the WR conclusion so well it's strange that it has been buried so long.  Not only does it have LHO going in the right direction toward Tippit it has him running so as to give him enough time to make the rendezvous.

Still, an interesting story no doubt but to me it raises its own issues. 


Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 07:29:14 PM »
Devil's advocate.  After 57 years this is the first I can recall reading anthing that direcly contradicts Roberts' story of seeing LHO standing at the bus stop.  Not only that, it quotes Roberts as saying something entirely different, i.e., that LHO (after hesitating) went off RUNNING south on Beckley.  No one saw LHO on the walk from the boarding house to 10th and Patton much less saw LHO running anywhere.  A man standing at a bus stop is easier to miss than a man running on a residential street.

If I read the OP correctly, Aynesworth waited 6 months from the interview with Roberts to make his handwritten notes, so how do we know he correctly remembered what she said? 

Since the running story fits the WR conclusion so well it's strange that it has been buried so long.  Not only does it have LHO going in the right direction toward Tippit it has him running so as to give him enough time to make the rendezvous.

Still, an interesting story no doubt but to me it raises its own issues.

After 57 years this is the first I can recall reading anthing that direcly contradicts Roberts' story of seeing LHO standing at the bus stop.

We have discussed Aynesworth’s reporting on this subject here before. You must have missed it. Aynesworth has maintained this all along. However this might be the best documentation that I have seen.

If I read the OP correctly, Aynesworth waited 6 months from the interview with Roberts to make his handwritten notes, so how do we know he correctly remembered what she said? 

Actually near the end of Aynesworth’s typewritten notes with handwritten notations he says it has been 4-months since the events. So I am guessing that he wrote this account before the Dallas Morning News editors decided to collect the reporters’ notes for publication in May 1964. I don’t know if he decided to do this on his own, or if he was given two months notice. I suspect the former. As far as correctly remembering what Mrs. Roberts said, Hugh Aynesworth is a well respected journalist who routinely took handwritten notes as he was gathering information. He was caught without any pencil or notebook in Dealey Plaza. But he wasn’t on any assignment at the time so that is understandable. He did purchase a pencil from a nearby schoolboy however. And took notes from witness accounts on the backs of some utility bill envelopes he had in his pocket. There is no doubt in my mind that he took notes of what Earlene Roberts said as she said it. By this time he was on assignment and knew he was in on a huge story.

Since the running story fits the WR conclusion so well it's strange that it has been buried so long.  Not only does it have LHO going in the right direction toward Tippit it has him running so as to give him enough time to make the rendezvous.

It hasn’t been buried. Just ignored (in order to believe Roberts’ false memory). I am just excited to have discovered this evidence. The original reporter’s notes are housed at the DeGolyer Library at Southern Methodist University. They were copied in 2012 for The Dallas Morning News’ publication of their book. And photos of the original notes are in that book.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 07:49:44 PM »
The anybody but LHO crowd likes to believe that LHO actually stood at the bus stop near his rooming house when he left it a little after 1:00 on 11/22/63. And they point this out as part of their argument claiming that LHO couldn’t have traveled on foot the distance to the Tippit murder scene in time to get there before Tippit was murdered.

Here is a quote from a photograph of the actual typewritten notes by Hugh Aynesworth written in May of 1964 for The Dallas Morning News and published in a book titled “The Reporters’ Notes by The Dallas Morning News published in 2013.

“Mrs. Roberts recalled the now star-boarder running in about 1 p.m. as she sat watching the TV coverage of the assassination. “Boy you’re in a hurry,” she said. He hasn’t replied yet. She told us Oswald (Mr. Lee as she knew him) had hesitated at the front of the house a moment, then started running down Beckley Street south.

So, the later claims by Mrs. Roberts that LHO went to the bus stop and waited there for a while are (quite obviously to me) not true. She may believe that he did, but it is apparent that her later memory is false. Her fresh recollection (given to Aynesworth and the others just hours after the event) of LHO running south on Beckley, and no mention of the bus stop, are bound to be more accurate than her later one. Our memories are reconstructions (unlike taped re-runs) based on associations. It is easy to understand how Mrs. Roberts could mistakenly associate another memory (of LHO standing at the bus stop at another time) as part of what she remembered of 11/22/63. We all have mistakenly remembered a few things wrong from time to time. And we only realize it when we encounter evidence contrary to our memories. So, it probably happens to all of us more often than we think it does.

Some of you will cling to Mrs. Roberts’ false memory account and say that it is true. But I am convinced otherwise. I always have felt this way. But now have firm evidence to support my conclusion.


“Mrs. Roberts recalled the now star-boarder running in about 1 p.m. as she sat watching the TV coverage of the assassination."

This statement contradicts what Mrs Roberts actually said she was doing when Lee entered the house.   Mrs R said that she was STANDING in front of the TV which she had just turned on and was waiting for the set to warm up when Lee entered.....   Trivial detail?....Yes...But it serves to illuminate that Mr Aynesworth was not above twisting the facts to serve his purpose.   IMO,  Aynesworth is a Texas Bull shipper who enjoys telling stories...

Offline Louis Earl

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 08:02:13 PM »
Thank you for the follow up.   

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2020, 08:03:13 PM »

“Mrs. Roberts recalled the now star-boarder running in about 1 p.m. as she sat watching the TV coverage of the assassination."

This statement contradicts what Mrs Roberts actually said she was doing when Lee entered the house.   Mrs R said that she was STANDING in front of the TV which she had just turned on and was waiting for the set to warm up when Lee entered.....   Trivial detail?....Yes...But it serves to illuminate that Mr Aynesworth was not above twisting the facts to serve his purpose.   IMO,  Aynesworth is a Texas Bull shipper who enjoys telling stories...

Why do you believe that Aynesworth twisted this? What was the purpose? How can you say with any certainty that Mrs. Roberts didn’t actually tell Aynesworth she was sitting? She could have easily misspoken that detail instead of Aynesworth being incorrect.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2020, 08:20:50 PM »
Why do you believe that Aynesworth twisted this? What was the purpose? How can you say with any certainty that Mrs. Roberts didn’t actually tell Aynesworth she was sitting? She could have easily misspoken that detail instead of Aynesworth being incorrect.

Aynesworth said that Mrs Robert's told him that she saw Lee running down the street.... That's Aynesworth Bullshit!!..... Mrs Roberts actually said that she last saw Lee STANDING on the sidewalk in front of the rooming house.... (There was a bus stop where she saw Lee standing and some folks have interpreted that to indicate that Lee was waiting for a bus )

I'm sure you don't like being faced with the facts....but Aynesworth plays fast and loose with the facts....or to put it bluntly...Hugh Aynesworth is a damned liar!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 12:51:04 AM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2020, 08:22:25 PM »
AFFIDAVIT OF EARLENE ROBERTS
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Yarborough_aff.pdf

[EXCERPT]

The following affidavit was executed by Earlene Roberts on December 5, 1963.
PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS, County of Dallas, 88:

I, Earlene Roberts, after being duly sworn, do depose and state :
I live at 1026 Beckley, Dallas, Texas, where I serve as housekeeper for a room- ing house owned by Mr. & Mrs. A. C. Johnson.
On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:00 pm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination when a man I knew as 0. H. Lee, but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into the front door and went to his room. Oswald did not have a jacket when he came in the house and I don’t recall what type of clothing he was wearing.
Oswald went to his room and was only there a very few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a dark color and it was the type that zips up the front. He was zipping the jacket up as he left.
Oswald went out the front door. A moment later I looked out the window. I saw Lee Oswald standing on the curb at the bus stop just to the right, and on the same side of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once. I don’t know how long Lee Oswald stood at the curb nor did I see which direction he went when he left there.

[...]
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 08:32:22 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2020, 08:55:59 PM »
AFFIDAVIT OF EARLENE ROBERTS
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pdf/WH7_Yarborough_aff.pdf

[EXCERPT]

The following affidavit was executed by Earlene Roberts on December 5, 1963.
PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION
ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
STATE OF TEXAS, County of Dallas, 88:

I, Earlene Roberts, after being duly sworn, do depose and state :
I live at 1026 Beckley, Dallas, Texas, where I serve as housekeeper for a room- ing house owned by Mr. & Mrs. A. C. Johnson.
On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:00 pm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination when a man I knew as 0. H. Lee, but who has since been identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, came into the front door and went to his room. Oswald did not have a jacket when he came in the house and I don’t recall what type of clothing he was wearing.
Oswald went to his room and was only there a very few minutes before coming out. I noticed he had a jacket he was putting on. I recall the jacket was a dark color and it was the type that zips up the front. He was zipping the jacket up as he left.
Oswald went out the front door. A moment later I looked out the window. I saw Lee Oswald standing on the curb at the bus stop just to the right, and on the same side of the street as our house. I just glanced out the window that once. I don’t know how long Lee Oswald stood at the curb nor did I see which direction he went when he left there.

[...]


If you read the rest of the affidavit she says “About 30 minutes later three policemen came to the house.” 

30-minutes - LOL. She remembers everything so well...

Offline Charles Collins

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Re: The Bus Stop Farce
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2020, 08:57:23 PM »
Charles, Roberts' earlier affidavit, December 5, actually backs up Aynesworth: "On Friday, November 22, 1963, at approximately 1:00 pm I was sitting in the living room watching television about the President’s assassination"

I noticed that Denis, thanks!

 

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