The First Shot


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Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2020, 05:35:39 PM »
The missed shot that hit Tague is the reason the single bullet theory came into being. Otherwise one could argue that the first shot hit the President, the second the Governor and the third is the headshot. Three shots, three bullets, three hits. Deduct one bullet for the Tague hit and the Commission found itself up spombleprofglidnoctobuns creek without a paddle. So it needed the single bullet theory to support its single assassin conclusion, despite the misgivings and objections of some Commission members, and the contradictory evidence provided by Governor Connally.

The autopsy concluded there was a neck transit. Therefore, in theory, the bullet that emerged intact from the President's throat had to be accounted for. What was in the path of the bullet, in front of and slightly below the President? Connally.

Tague was not the defining issue with regard to the SBT. He could have been injured by a ricochet fragment on what some consider a missed first shot or a rogue metal fragment from the head shot.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2020, 05:35:39 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2020, 05:53:59 PM »
The autopsy concluded there was a neck transit. Therefore, in theory, the bullet that emerged intact from the President's throat had to be accounted for. What was in the path of the bullet, in front of and slightly below the President? Connally.

Tague was not the defining issue with regard to the SBT. He could have been injured by a ricochet fragment on what some consider a missed first shot or a rogue metal fragment from the head shot.
What does this tell us about when the first shot occurred?
(assuming 3 shots from TSBD)

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2020, 07:42:33 PM »
In the link you provide Tague is hit well before z207. Zapruder shows no meaningful reaction from agents Hickey, Landis or Ready up to that point, who all testify they reacted immediately to the first shot, turning to look "rear right". Zapruder refutes this model. The first shot must come after z207.

At the moment I have it something like this:

1st shot - z223 - passes through JFK and Connally
2nd shot - z313 - headshot
3rd shot - ? - hits piece of concrete south side of Elm, fragment goes on to hit Tague
The West survey, as revealed by the late Tom Purvis, shows that SS, FBI etc. ..knew the location of hits.
Z207
Z312
Z350

Connally seems quite mobile at Z275, and upright. Not the actions of a man who had a massive back, chest wound.
Might want to consider the political future of a man who did nothing to protect JFK.
Also, his WC testimony ends with an apology of sorts. For not doing anything. Very telling.
Well worth reading.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2020, 07:42:33 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2020, 01:00:11 AM »
The West survey, as revealed by the late Tom Purvis, shows that SS, FBI etc. ..knew the location of hits.
Z207
Z312
Z350

Connally seems quite mobile at Z275, and upright. Not the actions of a man who had a massive back, chest wound.
Might want to consider the political future of a man who did nothing to protect JFK.
Also, his WC testimony ends with an apology of sorts. For not doing anything. Very telling.
Well worth reading.

What z-frame corresponds to Connally being shot ?

Online Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2020, 02:15:54 AM »
We know Connolly said that he heard the shot and then tried to turn around to look at JFK. For the single bullet theory to be correct he would have looked around to the right before going behind the Stemmons sign. He also said that once shot he fell and was pulled almost immediately into his wife's lap.
The problem with his testimony is that he did a full turn around after frame 223. Before going behind the Stemmons sign he just glanced to his right but after frame 223 he made that full turn around and only after that did he fall into Nellie's lap. It seems like he was reacting to the throat shot not the earlier round that sounded like firecrackers. Of course twisting around to the right after losing 4 inches of rib it's hard to see. Holding onto your hat with a fractured wrist and then articulating that wrist into a bent position to fit your hat between the door and yourself it's also hard to see.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2020, 04:05:59 AM »
What z-frame corresponds to Connally being shot ?
Z312
Z350

Did you read his testimony at WC?
Why is he so apologetic?
Are you familiar with the West survey?
All available at the EF, under Purvis?
Apologies for citing the other " tv channel"; fyi, Tom Purvis also posted here, contributed to this site. Check with this site's owner about Mr. Purvis.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2020, 04:05:59 AM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2020, 04:21:44 AM »
Harold Norman, the closest ear witness right beneath the 6th floor SE window replicates the spacing of the 3  shots he heard on about 4 sec or less in every video review and never deviated from that perception even at the mock trial with Bugliosi v Spence

Also, Norman describes a very specific sequence: He heard the 1st shot and saw JFK slump. Then Norman heard 2 more shots very close together

So that cannot be a 1st shot “miss” before z223 If there were no more than 3 shots in total as most of the ear witness describe hearing

If it were a missed shot prior to z223 Norman would have described the sequence as “I heard 2 shots and then saw JFK slump and then I heard one more shot

This spacing of the shots by Norman is consistent with Lee Bowers (tower operator behind grassy knoll fence)spacing in less than 4 sec from the well known Mark Lane camera recorded interview with Bowers rapping his hand on the desk

There is  Charles Brehm’s odd lack of reaction ( he is still clapping his hands) as the JFK limo passes and after supposedly 2 shots fired already. Possibly because Brehm was a WW2 combat vet and desensitized to gunshots? IDK. Add to this that Brehm is one of a minority claiming to have heard a 3rd shot AFTER 313 !?

Charles Brahm’s very 1st immediate interview recorded is quite different than his laterFBI recorded statement.

Brehm apparently heard only TWO shots, the 1st shot he saw HIT JFk and JFKs hands at his throat and then Brehm heard a 2nd  shot which caused JFK to fall over in the lap of Jackie Kennedy

There is no mention by Brehm in this initial early interview ( his immediate impressions)  of having heard a 3rd shot, nor any reference to spacing of shots approximating “about as fast as could be fired with a bolt action rifle”

My impression of Brehm is that he was a patriotic American WW2 who has honorably served and that upon learning later   that the main suspect was Oswald , a former USMC vet and a defector to USSR  Brehm Was infuriated by such treachery and thus embellished his story to help the WC

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 11:41:20 AM »
Z312
Z350

Did you read his testimony at WC?
Why is he so apologetic?
Are you familiar with the West survey?
All available at the EF, under Purvis?
Apologies for citing the other " tv channel"; fyi, Tom Purvis also posted here, contributed to this site. Check with this site's owner about Mr. Purvis.
Hi John, really confused by your response. Firstly, I am familiar with Connally's WC testimony and the West survey (through Tom Purvis on "the other channel"). I asked what z-frame corresponds to Connally being shot and you replied:
                                   Z312
                                   Z350
You seem to be implying Connally was shot in the back whilst lying on Nellie's lap. After the headshot JBC rolls to his left to reveal blood streaming down his back. By z245 Connally has already twisted in his seat so much it is impossible for him to be shot in the back from anywhere close to the TSBD and at no point after does he turn his back in a way that such a shot would be possible.
In his WC testimony Connally states he hears the shot, turns to look over his right shoulder then, as he is turning to look over his left he is shot. Zapruder shows nothing of the sort. Around z 160 he looks to his left then turns to his right looking at the people on the street. He never changes this position until he is shot at z223:



This is the first of the three shots assumed to be fired from the TSBD. As Zeon hints at, a number of witnesses see JFK slumping to his side after this first shot. None as certain as Carl Brandt:


https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/ea06nf0Ktgg

{click on Dave Reitzes)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 10:37:23 PM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2020, 11:41:20 AM »


 

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