Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 128352 times)

Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3091
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2020, 07:26:52 PM »
Advertisement
Pat Speer assembled a very useful website. Z190 sounds like Jiggle Analysis but I really do not know why he chose Z190. It is best to just read the witness statements. They give the location of the car in relationship to where they were standing when they heard the first shot. Jean Newman states it was just after it had passed her and the Chisms state it was just before them. Mary Woodward states it was when JFK looks forward again which is Z204.

Mary Woodward:   After acknowledging our cheers, he [JFK] faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-splitting noise coming from behind us and a little to the right. My first reaction, and also my friends', was that as a joke someone had backfired their car. Apparently, the driver and occupants of the President's car had the same impression, because instead of speeding up, the car came almost to a halt...I don't believe anyone was hit with the first bullet. The President and Mrs. Kennedy turned and looked around, as if they, too, didn't believe the noise was really coming from a gun...Then after a moment's pause, there was another shot and I saw the President start slumping in the car. This was followed rapidly by another shot. Mrs. Kennedy stood up in the car, turned halfway around, then fell on top of her husband’s body…

Ann Donaldson (11-22-63 first person account published in the Washington Evening Star, Second Extra Edition. Note: this article was apparently picked up from a Jackson, Mississippi paper.) "I was standing 70 feet from President Kennedy when he was assassinated today and saw him fall under the bullet that killed him. Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy threw herself over his body as the President's car speeded up as soon as the driver realized what had happened. The crowd began to scream and wail and people standing nearby began to throw their children on the ground for safety. I heard two shots. The first shot sounded like a firecracker and the President heard it. He turned to look, as did everyone else, and then the second shot sounded.

-------------------------------

Chisms, Newman, and Secretaries

John Chism :  "And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved at the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot,"

Jean Newman : "The motorcade had just passed me when I heard that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report"


Gloria Calvery : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was Standing when I heard the first shot."

 Karan Hicks : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gunshot"

Karen Westbrook :  "The car he was in was almost directly  in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gun shot ."

------------------------------------

JBC describes his location in his WC statement:

The only children on the right side of the street was first the Chisms and then the Newmans.

Mr. SPECTER. When you turned to your right. Governor Connally, immediately after you heard the first shot. what did you see on that occasion?
Governor CONNALLY. Nothing of any significance except just people out on the grass slope. I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, just saw men, women, and children.

From the work already presented on this thread and the comprehensive witness statements from Pat Speer's website I would like to propose some initial assumptions:

1) There were three clearly audible shots
2) The shots followed a pattern - shot, pause, two shots closer together
3) The first shot hit JFK causing his hands to fly to his throat

In order to pinpoint when the first shot occurred it's necessary to take a closer examination of the Z-Film and JFK's reaction to being shot in particular. Something I will get on as soon as my ability to post images and videos returns.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2020, 07:26:52 PM »


Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3091
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2020, 07:29:48 PM »
So, the shooter missed the first, closest, easiest shot - at Z190 - but then connected, quite proficiently, on the next two shots, which were from a farther distance?
The shooter missed an entire 20?  foot long, 6 foot wide limo?
I'm not a gun guy, having never shot one, but I think, with some elementary training, I could hit a 120 square foot target.
But, don't let me interrupt the Oswald missed a 120 square foot , slow moving target, from 100 ft, party. Rock on. But do look up Oswald's firing range individual scores - not his total score. Might learn something.
Have you been reading this thread John? It is about the first shot striking JFK. Read the last few posts.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 07:38:15 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2020, 08:27:46 PM »
So, the shooter missed the first, closest, easiest shot - at Z190 - but then connected, quite proficiently, on the next two shots, which were from a farther distance?
The shooter missed an entire 20?  foot long, 6 foot wide limo?
I'm not a gun guy, having never shot one, but I think, with some elementary training, I could hit a 120 square foot target.
But, don't let me interrupt the Oswald missed a 120 square foot , slow moving target, from 100 ft, party. Rock on. But do look up Oswald's firing range individual scores - not his total score. Might learn something.

The earliest shot, if from the SN, would require the most tracking. If Oswald was aiming at the limousine driver Greer or one of the limousine's tires, for example, he could have missed such a target by a few inches and struck the pavement. At those distances, one degree error might cause him to miss.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2020, 08:27:46 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2337
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2020, 08:50:36 PM »
Pat Speer assembled a very useful website. Z190 sounds like Jiggle Analysis but I really do not know why he chose Z190. It is best to just read the witness statements. They give the location of the car in relationship to where they were standing when they heard the first shot. Jean Newman states it was just after it had passed her and the Chisms state it was just before them. Mary Woodward states it was when JFK looks forward again which is Z204.

Jean Newman could only recall hearing two shots. So the "first shot" could be the second in a three-shot scenario. The car having "just passed" her position when she heard the first shot is consistent with a Z220s shot.

Online Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3091
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2020, 09:13:14 PM »
When trying to assess JFK's reaction to the first hit emphasis is sometimes put on the position of his right hand as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign:



The above image (z224) shows JFK beginning to emerge from behind the Stemmons sign. His right hand can be seen in a slightly raised position and can be interpreted as already reaching for his throat. However, as JFK raised and lowered his hand for waving it is often in this position:



As he passes behind the Stemmons sign JFK is just finishing a wave and it can be expected that his right hand would be in such a position as he emerges from behind the sign. As such, the right hand is an unreliable indicator of his reaction to being shot. In order to get a more accurate read on his reactions it is necessary to focus on his left hand/arm. The footage below (z169-226) shows JFK's last wave. It starts with his right arm resting on the side of the limo, elbow out, with his right hand reaching back into the limo holding his left hand, which appears to rest on his stomach area, his left elbow down by his side. He releases his left hand as he begins to wave with his right. His left hand stays resting on his stomach area, his left elbow down by his side. His left arm/hand stays in this position as he goes behind the sign and is still in this position as he emerges from it:



In the clip below (z224-226) we see his left hand still resting on his stomach area, his left elbow down by his side but obscured by the top of the limo door (z224). In the next frame there is a slight movement of his left arm and hand (z225). In the final frame his elbow comes into view from behind the limo door, his hand clearly moving to his throat (z226):



This tells me JFK's first clear reaction to being shot is z226 although it is possible the reaction may begin in z225. The question is, how quickly would someone react to being shot? If a time factor can be established this can be converted into zframes and it will be possible to count these frames back from z225/226 to get a good estimate for when JFK is initially hit
« Last Edit: October 01, 2020, 09:15:40 PM by Dan O'meara »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #76 on: October 01, 2020, 09:13:14 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10812
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #77 on: October 01, 2020, 10:17:58 PM »
Pathetic.

"The gentleman wearing a hat, Ernest Brandt"  38:40

A circle drawn on a copy of Willis 5 doesn't prove anything either.  Especially about who's who in the Zapruder film.

Offline Allan Fritzke

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2020, 11:20:13 PM »
This film with synchronized sound also shows the crowd of witnesses running up the knoll--


Enjoyed this enhanced French video that was posted.   

My opinion still remains that the first shot was fired at the JFK when he was obscured behind the sign just prior to Z225.   No one ever comments about the 2 people who were eye witnesses to the first shot visible from Z225 and on.  The one was wearing the blue jump suit (bald or hairless?)  and the one behind appeared to be a colored guy with suit and hat (RHS of frame) standing next to or right behind him.   The blue jump suit man's hand goes from a clapping position to behind the back and then returns back to front.  Must have had a little itch to scratch!  There faces were blurred and unrecoverable in film enhancement.  Were these 2 ever interviewed?   They are not present in any other films to my knowledge.  To me, the first shot was low caliber, possibly even a dart gun.  Judging from JFK posture in later frames, his cheeks became puffed and he was having difficulty breathing.   It is difficult to say if these 2 individuals even were turning their heads to continue to watch the Presidential procession at the time as they are heavily "redacted".  They are prime witnesses and their actions are suspect.  Most other characters in the film are almost motionless on the sidelines, save the running girl!

I still go out on a limb to say that all Zapruder Films were tampered with.  If you allow Hollywood to have its day and allow for extreme video editing of select frames (in the area of Z313-Z316 and on), you can create a story. 

Take those frames out and you can see a different picture from the film anomalies present at Z322 and Z330.   (Look closely at the French video at 0:44 seconds (Z322) and continue with windshield light aberration at  Z330.  Doesn't it look like the French film shows a projectile coming in from front as JFK's hand is being raised?  Is that a film scratch?  Was there really a light aberration at Z330 coinciding with an obvious red smear on the President's head?  Jacqueline is horrified at about Z336 and decides to jump from back of car to save herself - not scrape up brain matter as some would have it!   Obviously there is a quick reaction from her different than what her reaction is just after Z313 where she is showing increased concern for her husband - not yet, total horror.  If such a blast occurred as shown in Z313, she would be rubbing the blood splatter out of her eyes as evidenced from the "cloud" surrounding her and leaving much quicker.  We see no evidence of that!  The horrified face became apparent much later.   

Lets say you believe Z313 to be the first kill shot.  High powered rifle shots would force your body movement in the direction of the muzzle blast, not against it.  Everything goes against reality here.  Such a headshot, would have rendered the President "nerve" less and his hand would not have moved up in a defensive posture.  He would have collapsed forward - end of story.

And of course, the obvious.  The First Lady was never allowed to give her rendition of the sequence of events and where she thought the gunfire came from. How many shots were fired and what in her opinion she saw?  Why did she react and attempt to jump out of back?  Obviously she was horrified at what she just witnessed and seemed to have clear eyed vision of what just took place.   She didn't climb out on the trunk blindly.  She obviously didn't feel protected at JFK's side and feared for her own life.   She likely had quick thoughts that she could be the next victim in this crime scene - a need to keep her mouth shut if she saw too much and may be a loose end.   Her side of the story has never being told.  She may have rightly feared for her own life and the safety of her children.  An inside job and her knowing that would have a great influence on her future well being no doubt.

Logic progression of Zapruder Film, shows the President raising his arm in self defense, not a reaction from a bullet striking him from behind. He was conscious enough to see what was happening and John Connally was conscious enough to duck down momentarily below the seat back (see video). The front SS agent ducked as well.   Connally's head later came back above seat line after what I believe were 2 rapid shots - indicating he had not lost consciousness.  Follow the French film closely and see what I say is true.  Connally's head is visible in the corner behind the driver for many frames later as they go into the tunnel.

The other major character that was never questioned was the man rolling into the grass beside Altgens.  Altgens never winced and his picture likely taken at the time never publicized.    This man next to Ike was never questioned as to who he was and why he did a rollover move next to the car at precisely the same time of the shooting.  One frame clearly shows that this man's face could never be enhanced  (Z351 is a prime example!)   The Warren Commission who would have saw the Zapruder film were not even a bit concerned to find this guy and interview him.  

Why was the car removed from the crime scene without being investigated?  Why was the windshield changed?  Wasn't that forensic evidence?     It seems the windshield story had an ongoing adjustment fabricated as the story progressed and people "claimed" to have seen holes in windshield - that had to be sidestepped and put to rest.    Some even go so far as to say it was gravel.  Obviously it could not have been bullets coming from the TSBD as that is not reason to hide!  All smells of fabrication and coverup after the fact.  Even Nellie Connally's window half rolled up and sun visors flipped all the way up raises concern and makes you wonder if that was standard operating procedure.  Similarly why bubble top wasn't used for protection - everyone loved him!

Why was it necessary that the assassin had to be at the TSBD building only when all people in films were seen clearly running towards the grassy knoll?   Are we to believe that herd mentality cut in and only a select few heard shots from behind. ie. TSBD? and everyone instinctively ran for the hills?  Why was the lead car waiting under the overpass? The Presidential limousine obviously slowed down, maybe almost stopped so that the secret service agent could run up from behind and jump on the back!   

I listened to the audio tape of one reporter on the scene that day.   He astutely observed and stated on that day that there were 2 shots in quick succession.  Obviously a contradiction to a bolt action sniper rifle.  If it was a semi automatic  handgun, it would make sense and make the shots come in about a second apart and placed with accuracy one after the other.   Just my opinion.  FWIW   


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #78 on: October 01, 2020, 11:20:13 PM »


Offline John Tonkovich

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 731
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2020, 01:38:41 AM »
Have you been reading this thread John? It is about the first shot striking JFK. Read the last few posts.  ::)
Well, Dan, since SS, FBI, etc., in their initial surveys completed by Mr. West in late 1963 located the first hit at Z207, why exactly do you feel the need, 57 years later, to reexamine what was/is already known.
If you go the EF - no need to join; I lurked there for several years, separating the wheat from the chaff - and look at Tom Purvis' work, perhaps you will see how Mr Specter and friends tried to cover up these surveys. And you might also see why this was done.
Also, either you, and/or others on this thread keep bringing up Z190 as the first  shot.. I believe Mr Speer's name has been invoked.