The First Shot


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Online Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 02:24:03 PM »
It's sort of bizarre how Connally's first reaction involves a violent jerk of his left shoulder and arm upwards.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 02:25:26 PM by Chris Bristow »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2020, 02:24:03 PM »


Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2020, 03:13:15 PM »
The HSCA determined that

- President Kennedy first showed a reaction to a "severe external stimulus" by Zapruder frame 207;
- Governor Connally first showed a reaction to a "severe external stimulus" by Zapruder frame 224;
- at least two shots, spaced approximately 6 seconds apart, were fired at the Presidential limousine.

QUOTE:

The first, missed shot.

The first reaction by any of the limousine occupants to a severe external stimulus begins to occur in the vicinity of Zapruder frames 162-167. At this time, Connally is looking to his left, when his head begins a rapid, sudden motion to the right. In quantitative terms, he turns his head approximately 60 to his right in one-ninth of a second (a rate equivalent to a 540 rotation per second). He pauses momentarily and then executes a further 30 turn to his right, within an eighteenth of a second (again, a rate equivalent to a 540 rotation per second). This initial rapid motion, in which Connally has apparently turned his head to look behind him, is accompanied during the next approximately 20 frames by a more gradual 60 shift to the right of his upper torso. Although it is apparent that none of the limousine occupants has been shot at the time that Connally initiates this movement, the Panel considers these actions to be particularly significant because they were consistent with his Warren Commission testimony that he turned in response to having heard the first shot and was struck almost immediately afterwards.

During the period of Connally's initial rapid movement, however, no one else shows a comparable reaction. The President does not appear to react to anything unusual prior to Zapruder frame 190. The Panel observed, however, that at approximately this time, a young girl who had been running across the grass, beyond the far curb of the street where the limousine was traveling, suddenly began to stop and turn sharply to her right, looking up the street in a direction behind the limousine.


The second shot.

At approximately Zapruder frame 200, Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus. By the time he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frame 225, the President makes a clutching motion with his hands toward his neck, indicating clearly that he has been shot. Connally's movements as he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frames 222-224 also indicate that he is reacting to a severe external stimulus. He appears to be frowning, and there is a distinct, stiffening of his shoulders and upper trunk. Then there is a radical change in his facial expression, and rapid changes begin to occur in the orientation of his head.

The third shot.

At frame 313, approximately 6 seconds (based on the 18.3 frames per second exposure rate of the Zapruder camera) after the President disappears behind the sign, his head is seen exploding from the impact of a bullet.

Source HSCA report volume 6 page 17 & 18.




Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2020, 04:25:33 PM »
It's sort of bizarre how Connally's first reaction involves a violent jerk of his left shoulder and arm upwards.
Also note Connally's wrist at the end of the clip posted above. In my opinion it is at a very unnatural angle. Much is made of Connally holding on to his hat but I suspect he couldn't let go of it if he wanted to.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2020, 04:25:33 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2020, 05:02:27 PM »
The HSCA determined that

- President Kennedy first showed a reaction to a "severe external stimulus" by Zapruder frame 207;
- Governor Connally first showed a reaction to a "severe external stimulus" by Zapruder frame 224;
- at least two shots, spaced approximately 6 seconds apart, were fired at the Presidential limousine.

QUOTE:

The first, missed shot.

The first reaction by any of the limousine occupants to a severe external stimulus begins to occur in the vicinity of Zapruder frames 162-167. At this time, Connally is looking to his left, when his head begins a rapid, sudden motion to the right. In quantitative terms, he turns his head approximately 60 to his right in one-ninth of a second (a rate equivalent to a 540 rotation per second). He pauses momentarily and then executes a further 30 turn to his right, within an eighteenth of a second (again, a rate equivalent to a 540 rotation per second). This initial rapid motion, in which Connally has apparently turned his head to look behind him, is accompanied during the next approximately 20 frames by a more gradual 60 shift to the right of his upper torso. Although it is apparent that none of the limousine occupants has been shot at the time that Connally initiates this movement, the Panel considers these actions to be particularly significant because they were consistent with his Warren Commission testimony that he turned in response to having heard the first shot and was struck almost immediately afterwards.

During the period of Connally's initial rapid movement, however, no one else shows a comparable reaction. The President does not appear to react to anything unusual prior to Zapruder frame 190. The Panel observed, however, that at approximately this time, a young girl who had been running across the grass, beyond the far curb of the street where the limousine was traveling, suddenly began to stop and turn sharply to her right, looking up the street in a direction behind the limousine.


The second shot.

At approximately Zapruder frame 200, Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus. By the time he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frame 225, the President makes a clutching motion with his hands toward his neck, indicating clearly that he has been shot. Connally's movements as he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frames 222-224 also indicate that he is reacting to a severe external stimulus. He appears to be frowning, and there is a distinct, stiffening of his shoulders and upper trunk. Then there is a radical change in his facial expression, and rapid changes begin to occur in the orientation of his head.

The third shot.

At frame 313, approximately 6 seconds (based on the 18.3 frames per second exposure rate of the Zapruder camera) after the President disappears behind the sign, his head is seen exploding from the impact of a bullet.

Source HSCA report volume 6 page 17 & 18.

As for the first shot I refer you to the opening post of this thread. Agents Hickey, Landis and Ready testify that they reacted immediately to the first shot. The Zapruder footage in the OP focuses on the agents from z133 to z207. At no point do they show any meaningful reaction as described in their testimonies. According to this testimonial/video evidence the first shot did not take place before z207.
As for the second shot (somewhere between z200 and z207?), I find it hard to accept that JFK was shot, then his hands fly up to his throat almost a whole second later. To me this doesn't seem realistic. Also, I just don't see JFK reacting 'to a severe external stimulus'. The clip below is a close-up of JFK from z160-z207. I see him looking towards the people lined up on the right as he waves at them. He stops waving and looks forward as his arm moves down to its resting position. I don't see a 'freeze' or any sudden reaction.



Finally, the 'shot pattern' described in the HCSA report is nothing like that desribed by so many witnesses - shot, pause, two shots closer together.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 04:29:53 PM by Dan O'meara »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2020, 05:37:46 PM »
Hi John, really confused by your response. Firstly, I am familiar with Connally's WC testimony and the West survey (through Tom Purvis on "the other channel"). I asked what z-frame corresponds to Connally being shot and you replied:
                                   Z312
                                   Z350
You seem to be implying Connally was shot in the back whilst lying on Nellie's lap. After the headshot JBC rolls to his left to reveal blood streaming down his back. By z245 Connally has already twisted in his seat so much it is impossible for him to be shot in the back from anywhere close to the TSBD and at no point after does he turn his back in a way that such a shot would be possible.
In his WC testimony Connally states he heares the shot, turns to look over his right shoulder then, as he is turning to look over his left he is shot. Zapruder shows nothing of the sort. Around z 160 he looks to his left then turns to his right looking at the people on the street. He never changes this position until he is shot at z223:



This is the first of the three shots assumed to be fired from the TSBD. As Zeon hints at, a number of witnesses see JFK slumping to his side after this first shot. None as certain as Carl Brandt:


https://groups.google.com/g/alt.assassination.jfk/c/ea06nf0Ktgg

{click on Dave Reitzes)
Connally is upright at z275
And looking at Kennedy.
Where is this blood on Connally's back you speak of?
Z frames?
( I don't know how you can claim to see that kind of detail in the Zfilm)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2020, 07:34:40 PM »
Connally is upright at z275
And looking at Kennedy.
Where is this blood on Connally's back you speak of?
Z frames?
( I don't know how you can claim to see that kind of detail in the Zfilm)

The clip below is from z323 to z354. It shows JBC rolling to his left after the headshot. Towards the end of the clip (approx z350-354) there appears to be "blood" near the top of his armpit area (IMO)



I agree JBC is sat up looking at Kennedy at z275 but JFK is sat up as well and there is no question he's been shot. For me the clip in the previous post shows both men reacting in an extreme way. In Zapruder, just before they pass behind the Stemmons sign JBC is calmly scanning the crowd to his right. As he emerges from behind the sign he is exactly the same (z223), he then suddenly starts 'thrashing around'.
As the Z-film rolls on JBC stops thrashing, twists in his seat to face JFK then "swoons" into Nellies lap. IMO the fact he kind of collapses into Nellies lap is a strong indication he has already been shot.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 07:40:42 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2020, 07:34:40 PM »


Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2020, 08:37:39 PM »
The clip below is from z323 to z354. It shows TBC rolling to his left after the headshot. Towards the end of the clip (approx z350-354) there appears to be "blood" near the top of his armpit area (IMO)



I agree TBC is sat up looking at Kennedy at z275 but JFK is sat up as well and there is no question he's been shot. For me the clip in the previous post shows both men reacting in an extreme way. In Zapruder, just before they pass behind the Stemmons sign TBC is calmly scanning the crowd to his right. As he emerges from behind the sign he is exactly the same (z223), he then suddenly starts 'thrashing around'.
As the Z-film rolls on TBC stops thrashing, twists in his seat to face JFK then "swoons" into Nellies lap. IMO the fact he kind of collapses into Nellies lap is a strong indication he has already been shot.
West Survey.

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:00 PM »
West Survey.

That's way too cryptic for me.
Do you agree that looks like blood on Connally's back?

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:00 PM »


 

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