The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

JohnM

Your zframes have been edited.

[John Corbett]

You gave nothing other than your cherry-picked 'corroborations' and your own ill informed interpretation of what the Z-film shows.

Naturally when I am providing specific frames to corroborate the various things JBC said, I am going to cherry pick the frames. It would be rather silly to just post random frames.

This thread is a forensic examination of every piece of evidence relating to when the first shot occurred, including Connally's recollections.
Your ignorance regarding this matter appears to be total. Yet you are solidly convinced of your correctness.

Because I am correct. It's not like that's a great achievement. All it requires is a working knowledge of the evidence and the ability to apply common sense. The rest is easy.

For the last time - JBC's memory of the event cannot be relied on because he suffered a massively traumatic, life-threatening injury which dramatically affected his memory of the event.

We can rely on anything JBC remembered that is corroborated by the Z-film. If not for the Z-film, it would be very difficult to determine what JBC said that could be accepted as factual.

Do you agree with him that the first two shots were a "split second" apart?

Where did you get that one? This was JBC's testimony to the WC:

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?
Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time.

Do you agree he was facing just left of centre when shot?

No. The Z-film refutes that. He had started to turn in that direction but had not quite squared up when the bullet struck. We are talking about less than a half second difference from the time the bullet struck him until he was facing forward.

Do you agree, according to the Z-film, the only time he turns to face JFK is after he has been shot?

Yes it was but according to his testimony, he had no memory of seeing JFK. Perfectly understandable given the seriousness of his wound.

Do you agree with JBC's assessment of around z234 as the moment he was shot?

No, I only believe the parts of his statement that conform to what the Z-film shows because I know the Z-film is correct.

Do you believe in examining ALL the evidence?

I believe in WEIGHING all the evidence. That's the part CTs are not very good at. I'm not one to accept something as factual just because a witness has said that's how they remember the event.

[Andrew Mason]

For the last time - JBC's memory of the event cannot be relied on because he suffered a massively traumatic, life-threatening injury which dramatically affected his memory of the event.

Do you agree with him that the first two shots were a "split second" apart?

JBC said that there was perceptible time between the shots. In this 1966 press conference he denied that the shots were spaced less than a second apart.  He estimated 2 seconds (at 2:25 and following):

Do you agree he was facing just left of centre when shot?

No. He thought he was but Nellie was in a better position to accurately see this. She told Dr. Shires that he was turned to his right when hit.

Do you agree, according to the Z-film, the only time he turns to face JFK is after he has been shot?

Not according to Nellie or Gayle Newman. They said he was turned to his right side.

Do you agree with JBC's assessment of around z234 as the moment he was shot?

No. Not if he was hit in the torso by the second shot.  That does not fit the 1……2….3 shot pattern or Greer’s evidence or Altgen’s evidence or Hickey’s evidence.

Do you believe in examining ALL the evidence?

Of course. Do you?

I agree with your assessment of the evidence that there was no missed first shot.  There is not only all the evidence from witnesses who said that JFK reacted to the first shot but there are numerous independent consistent recollections of where JFK was when the first shot sounded - and he was much farther down Elm St.  That excludes an early first shot before z186.

So I would agree that all that evidence excludes a second shot passing through both men.

[Dan O'meara]

Naturally when I am providing specific frames to corroborate the various things JBC said, I am going to cherry pick the frames. It would be rather silly to just post random frames.
Because I am correct. It's not like that's a great achievement. All it requires is a working knowledge of the evidence and the ability to apply common sense. The rest is easy.
We can rely on anything JBC remembered that is corroborated by the Z-film. If not for the Z-film, it would be very difficult to determine what JBC said that could be accepted as factual.
Where did you get that one? This was JBC's testimony to the WC:

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?
Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time.
No. The Z-film refutes that. He had started to turn in that direction but had not quite squared up when the bullet struck. We are talking about less than a half second difference from the time the bullet struck him until he was facing forward.
Yes it was but according to his testimony, he had no memory of seeing JFK. Perfectly understandable given the seriousness of his wound.
No, I only believe the parts of his statement that conform to what the Z-film shows because I know the Z-film is correct.
I believe in WEIGHING all the evidence. That's the part CTs are not very good at. I'm not one to accept something as factual just because a witness has said that's how they remember the event.

  You're quite amusing.
You're like a Tinfoil Nutter.
If you ever feel like doing any actual research (rather than just swallowing down the WC report like a good little boy) Pat Speer's website is an invaluable resource.
Have a look through the numerous statements Connally gave about the shooting and you will see how unreliable he is as a witness to the event (not that he isn't trying to be totally honest). Here's a small selection regarding the right turn you put so much emphasis on:

(11-27-63 televised interview with Martin Agronsky, transcript printed in the 11-28-63 New York Times.) ”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit...

His very first statement on the matter made days after the event...he heard the shot and turned to his left!!
Hmmmm...
He appears to recall turning to his left and seeing JFK"slumped". Something not shown in the Z-film.

(12-13-63 FBI report on a 12-11 interview, CD188, p. 3-5)  "I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit."

Now he turns to his right "to look back".
This is not what we see in the Z-film. He looks to his right at the crowds on the street but he doesn't try to look back

(2-3-64 Associated press article reporting on Connally's comments at the annual Associated Press Texas managing editors meeting)  'I looked back over my right shoulder and could not see the President, so I turned to look over my left shoulder. I never completed that second turn when I got hit.

Wowser!!
In this one he actually looks back over his right shoulder. Something definitely not shown in the Z-film

As for how quick the shooting was...this is from the December FBI report:

When Governor Connally was asked about the elapsed time between the first and last shot he remarked “Fast, my God it was fast. It seemed like a split second. Just that quick” and he snapped his fingers three times rapidly to illustrate the time and said “unbelievably quick…"

Do some research and you won't come across as a buffoon.

[Zeon Mason]

So Norman under the window and JC being hit in the car basically corroborate each other with description of 3 shits  fired in less than 5 secs.

Maybe the shooter was using a rifle like the Rifleman Chuck Connors which could explain Norman hearing the click click sound while also recalling 3 shots fired quicker than could be probably fired using an MC rifle.

It might explain Will Fritz picking up shells from
the the SN floor BEFORE they were photographed, carrying then around for a while and  he returns later, placing them back down in position as seen in the photographs.

[John Corbett]

You're quite amusing.
You're like a Tinfoil Nutter.
If you ever feel like doing any actual research (rather than just swallowing down the WC report like a good little boy) Pat Speer's website is an invaluable resource.
Have a look through the numerous statements Connally gave about the shooting and you will see how unreliable he is as a witness to the event (not that he isn't trying to be totally honest). Here's a small selection regarding the right turn you put so much emphasis on:

(11-27-63 televised interview with Martin Agronsky, transcript printed in the 11-28-63 New York Times.) ”we had just turned the corner, we heard a shot; I turned to my left—I was sitting in the jump seat. I turned to my left to look in the back seat—the President had slumped. He had said nothing. Almost simultaneously, as I turned, I was hit...

His very first statement on the matter made days after the event...he heard the shot and turned to his left!!
Hmmmm...
He appears to recall turning to his left and seeing JFK"slumped". Something not shown in the Z-film.

(12-13-63 FBI report on a 12-11 interview, CD188, p. 3-5)  "I instinctively turned to my right to look back and as I did so I sensed more than I saw that President Kennedy was hit."

Now he turns to his right "to look back".
This is not what we see in the Z-film. He looks to his right at the crowds on the street but he doesn't try to look back

(2-3-64 Associated press article reporting on Connally's comments at the annual Associated Press Texas managing editors meeting)  'I looked back over my right shoulder and could not see the President, so I turned to look over my left shoulder. I never completed that second turn when I got hit.

Wowser!!
In this one he actually looks back over his right shoulder. Something definitely not shown in the Z-film

As for how quick the shooting was...this is from the December FBI report:

When Governor Connally was asked about the elapsed time between the first and last shot he remarked “Fast, my God it was fast. It seemed like a split second. Just that quick” and he snapped his fingers three times rapidly to illustrate the time and said “unbelievably quick…"

Do some research and you won't come across as a buffoon.

I treat JBC just like I treat any other witness. He is as subject to memory fallibility just as much as any witness. I do not accept everything he has said as factual. I accept the things he said that can be corroborated and I reject the things he has said that are refuted by the Z-film. Zapruder's camera was the only perfect witness.

[Andrew Mason]

Zapruder's camera was the only perfect witness.

If only it had Batman-like graphics that said "Bang" or "Ka-pow" ...  Maybe it did and the WC took them out.  Check with John Mytton. He may have found the missing frames.