The First Shot

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Online Benjamin Cole

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1224 on: November 03, 2025, 12:03:11 PM »
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I think you are right.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1224 on: November 03, 2025, 12:03:11 PM »


Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1225 on: November 03, 2025, 12:31:37 PM »
« Last Edit: November 03, 2025, 10:42:00 PM by Tom Graves »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1226 on: November 03, 2025, 07:51:35 PM »
Dear danny BOY o'meara,

Why would you rather rely on the hazy recollections of startled-and-traumatized-on-11/22/63 witnesses to the sounds of Oswald's first, missing-everything, shot instead of photographic evidence of the nearly simultaneous conscious reactions of seven prime witnesses (including JFK, himself) to said sounds?

-- Tom
Maybe because the actions you attribute to some of them are non-existent (JFK, Jackie, Rosemary Willis, and Kellerman in particular) and others are explained as normal behaviour or explained by things seen in the zfilm.   Expanding on what Dan has written I would point out the following:
  • Here is a slow motion version of z140 to z154 (z155-157 damaged or missing):
  • Here is Rosemary Willis from z140-z154.  Let me know if you can seen any turn toward the TSBD.

  • Now, compare that to her obvious head turn from z202-206 (beginning at the time her father said was an instant after the first shot:

I know Dan does not agree with a shot just before the Willis z202 photo but the film shows a distinct turn to the rear at that point which actually corresponds to what Rosemary said she did in response to hearing the shot - she said she turned and saw pigeons flying from the roof of the TSBD.

As far as Hickey is concerned, he appears to be looking left-forward downward. Is it possible/probable that this could have something to do with the two people standing on the street as the motorcycles approach? As Dan has pointed out, he did not say he looked to the left and down after the first shot.  He said he was looking at JFK and then turned to the rear.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2025, 07:56:56 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1226 on: November 03, 2025, 07:51:35 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1227 on: November 03, 2025, 08:33:18 PM »
I’m still with Dan, in this universe, that he and I are existing in. I’m not sure what is happening in that parallel universe that Tom is in, but apparently in  Tom’s  universe a 4 secs spread which Harold Norman ( the closest ear witness) judged as the time for 3 boom click click noises to be completed, is judged to be 10.2 secs.

Now I might change my mind that more than 3 shots were fired if  1 or 2 more shots were fired by a 2nd shooter using a suppressed rifle from the Daltex building, thus possibly a total of 5 shots spread out over a 10 sec period.

Even if so,however,  the 3 loud noises that clearly heard by Harold Norman, were from the MC rifle stuck out the window of 6th floor TSBD SE window. Therefore  it’s highly improbable that Norman could have perceived those noises (presumably shots) spread over 10 secs due to his repeated consistent demonstration using the boom click click description which he completed in  only 4 secs when he recorded on film and when he was at the Buglisoi mock trial as well.

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1228 on: November 03, 2025, 10:06:03 PM »
  • Here is a slow motion version of z140 to z154 (z155-157 damaged or missing):

Dear Andrew,

Why is Secret Service Agent George Hickey in the back seat of the follow-up car starting to lean over sharply around Z-140?

He gonna barf?

Didn't he say he heard something that sounded like a firecracker to the right and rear about then?

Why does Governor Connally look like a bobblehead doll?

And why in the world does Roy Kellerman, riding shotgun in the limo, turn his head so far to his right?

-- Tom
« Last Edit: November 03, 2025, 10:31:27 PM by Tom Graves »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1228 on: November 03, 2025, 10:06:03 PM »


Online Jarrett Smith

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1229 on: November 03, 2025, 11:03:31 PM »
Maybe because the actions you attribute to some of them are non-existent (JFK, Jackie, Rosemary Willis, and Kellerman in particular) and others are explained as normal behaviour or explained by things seen in the zfilm.   Expanding on what Dan has written I would point out the following:
  • Here is a slow motion version of z140 to z154 (z155-157 damaged or missing):
  • Here is Rosemary Willis from z140-z154.  Let me know if you can seen any turn toward the TSBD.

  • Now, compare that to her obvious head turn from z202-206 (beginning at the time her father said was an instant after the first shot:

I know Dan does not agree with a shot just before the Willis z202 photo but the film shows a distinct turn to the rear at that point which actually corresponds to what Rosemary said she did in response to hearing the shot - she said she turned and saw pigeons flying from the roof of the TSBD.

As far as Hickey is concerned, he appears to be looking left-forward downward. Is it possible/probable that this could have something to do with the two people standing on the street as the motorcycles approach? As Dan has pointed out, he did not say he looked to the left and down after the first shot.  He said he was looking at JFK and then turned to the rear.


The blurs on the Z-film largest to smallest:

1. Z312-Z318 Kennedy (Rear)
2. Z330-Z334 Kennedy (Front) (My Opinion)
3. Z191-Z197 ?
4. Z220-Z228 Kennedy/Connally (Rear)
5. Z158-Z160 Missed Shot (Rear)
6. Z290-Z293 ?

https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/infojfk/jfk6/blur.htm
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:33:29 PM by Jarrett Smith »

Online Tom Graves

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1230 on: November 03, 2025, 11:49:14 PM »

The blurs on the Z-film largest to smallest:

1. Z312-Z318 Kennedy (Rear)
2. Z330-Z334 Kennedy (Front) (My Opinion)
3. Z191-Z197 ?
4. Z220-Z228 Kennedy/Connally (Rear)
5. Z158-Z160 Missed Shot (Rear)
6. Z290-Z293 ?

If Oswald missed everything half-a-second before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133, it would have caused no "blur" on his film, would it.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1231 on: Yesterday at 03:14:13 AM »
Dear Andrew,

Why is Secret Service Agent George Hickey in the back seat of the follow-up car starting to lean over sharply around Z-140?

He gonna barf?
Part of his job was to watch the crowd in order to protect the occupants of the President’s car and the car he was in.  You will notice that when he leaned to the left there were two people standing in the street.  He appears to be looking right in their direction.  One would have to ask Hickey why he did that.  What he did say was that this was not the way he reacted to the first shot.

Quote
Didn't he say he heard something that sounded like a firecracker to the right and rear about then?
He did say he turned to the right rear upon hearing the first shot.  He turned from looking at the President to his right rear and then turned forward and watched the President when the second and third shots sounded.

Quote
Why does Governor Connally look like a bobblehead doll?
If you are referring to his turning from looking right forward to looking left to looking right forward again, this is not what he and Nellie said he did in response to the first shot.

Quote
And why in the world does Roy Kellerman, riding shotgun in the limo, turn his head so far to his right?
His head is a dark patch so I can’t see when he turns.  In Croft at z161 he is facing right forward. I assume he was doing what he had been trained to do - watch the people that were near and approaching.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:15:45 AM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1231 on: Yesterday at 03:14:13 AM »