The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

You think Linda Willis could see through people? She remembered a sign but it must have been the Thornton sign. Linda would have become familiar with her father's famous photo with just the Stemmons Frwy sign in it.

She said the first shot occurred when the President's car was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think the people in front of her blocked her view of the car or the Stemmons sign? Do you think she had no idea where the car was when she heard the first shot? She said it was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think she had no idea where JFK was in the car when the car was between her and the Stemmons sign? 

She then saw the President reacting to the first shot: "When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward," (7 H 498).  She was clear in her interviews. such as this one, that there was no shot before this (she states this at 5:50 in the linked interview).

Rosemary's quarter-second visual check. Most people seeking the source of a strange noise look longer than that. Rosemary begins slowing and looking to her right (and away from the limousine) long before your cherry-pick. GIF animation is slowed down to quarter-speed.
Did somebody pay this witness?

Well, she is coming to the end of the sidewalk and someone may have called to her to stop.  She does not stop until z199. But she does turn her head noticeable backward at z204-207.  We don't have any sprocket view until z212 and she is still looking back.  She then turns back to watch the President's car from z214-217. It is hardly surprising that she would quickly look away and then return to looking at the main attraction?

[Jerry Organ]

She said the first shot occurred when the President's car was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think the people in front of her blocked her view of the car or the Stemmons sign?

I'm showing people who are sane and rational--and not wedded to your lamebrain pet theory--that Linda Willis's view of the limousine and most of the Stemmons Frwy Sign was blocked during the time frame you claim. Linda had a much better view when the limousine was between her and the Thornton Sign, a few seconds before her father snapped his No.5 picture.

Do you think she had no idea where the car was when she heard the first shot? She said it was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think she had no idea where JFK was in the car when the car was between her and the Stemmons sign? 

I think she merely misremembered the particular sign she saw because she had become more familiar with her father's famous photo that has the Stemmons sign prominently featured. She certainly can't see anything of the President in the Z190s and beyond, let alone him grab at his throat. I don't believe she lived near Dealey Plaza or went there regularly as a teenager.

She then saw the President reacting to the first shot: "When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward," (7 H 498).  She was clear in her interviews. such as this one, that there was no shot before this (she states this at 5:50 in the linked interview).

Did you hear the part about the Secret Service disappearing a train in one of her father's pictures? Hard to believe she walked out of the Museum and Gary Mack couldn't set her straight on the line-of-sight issues as to why the stationary train appeared in some photos and not in others.



Linda apparently didn't take Mack's word that the "Jack Ruby" figure in another photo was someone else. Too bad the Museum doesn't have some "Debunk" Exhibits.

The only way Linda's view would have been similar to her father's photo was when the limousine was father back up towards the corner. To see the same scene in the Willis 05 photo, Linda would have to see through her father, the older ladies, and two motorcycle policemen. Secret Service agents standing on the Queen Mary were about to obstruct her view.



Even the Willis 05 photo shows her father (with less obstruction than Linda) had no view of Kennedy's throat and his view was being compromised by the agents on the Queen Mary car.



I think the Willis 05 photo was a composed photo-shot and not an accidental shot. Phil Willis was trying to get in one last photo of Kennedy. He took a similar one (above) while the motorcade was on Houston. I believe the first shot had sounded (Willis said it made Mrs. Kennedy turn her head from his side of the street to the opposite side, the latter being depicted in No.5) a few seconds before he took the photo. He said people (other than Mrs. Kennedy) had no time to react (most bystanders, from what I gather, initially thought the first shot was a backfire or firecracker).

I believe Linda had a line-of-sight to the head shot, through her and/or the people in front of her changing position.

Well, she is coming to the end of the sidewalk and someone may have called to her to stop.  She does not stop until z199.

Rosemary Willis has never said she intended to stop because of the sidewalk ending. She said the sound of the first shot motivated her to stop and look to her right. She begins to slow in the Z170s, if not sooner.

But she does turn her head noticeable backward at z204-207.  We don't have any sprocket view until z212 and she is still looking back.

Z212 doesn't even show Rosemary's head as it was in Z212 because of the splice. Z213 is too blurred to determine anything. Personally I believe I see a good amount of flesh tone on Rosemary's hood in Z213.

She then turns back to watch the President's car from z214-217. It is hardly surprising that she would quickly look away and then return to looking at the main attraction?

Why don't you just admit that as the blur resolves, Rosemary's head is already turned towards the car?



You were better off with the quarter-second cherry-pick gimmick.

[Dan O'meara]

I simply can't believe you two are still going on about Rosemary Willis.
It is genuinely unbelievable.
Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said that when she turned towards the book depository she could see Oswald "as clear as day".
Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said she saw a gunman firing from the sewer!
Let's not forget this is the same Rosemary Willis who saw gun smoke coming from the grassy knoll.
Whose first mention of stopping because she heard a shot was in 1979 - 16 years after the event.
Whose count of the the number of shots went from 3 to 4 to 6.

And let's not forget, the little girl who heard the first shot while she was running along, slowed down and turned to where she heard the shot coming from [the TSBD building], all of which is shown in the Z-film. While, but a few feet away, a carload of Secret Service agents show no sign of reacting to the same shot, also shown in the Z-film.
Hmmmm.... taxi for Common Sense!
 

[Andrew Mason]

I'm showing people who are sane and rational--and not wedded to your lamebrain pet theory--that Linda Willis's view of the limousine and most of the Stemmons Frwy Sign was blocked during the time frame you claim. Linda had a much better view when the limousine was between her and the Thornton Sign, a few seconds before her father snapped his No.5 picture.

Not up to your usual rigour, Jerry.  I expected a fancy overhead diagram showing how two people 15-20 feet ahead of her would block an entire 21 foot limousine 30 feet in front of them for the entire time it was passing in front of them.  Go for it. Here's mine:

Blue circle shows where Linda Willis was standing at z197.

Top of blue line is 5'4" above the surface. This gives 5 feet for her and 4" for the sidewalk. You can see that neither her father nor Croft block her view at z197. She had a completely clear view of the limo and the Stemmons sign and would have been able to see how JFK reacted to the first shot at that point.

I think she merely misremembered the particular sign she saw because she had become more familiar with her father's famous photo that has the Stemmons sign prominently featured. She certainly can't see anything of the President in the Z190s and beyond, let alone him grab at his throat. I don't believe she lived near Dealey Plaza or went there regularly as a teenager.

We are supposed to accept your speculation that she got mixed up on the sign?  Do you have any evidence? 

Z212 doesn't even show Rosemary's head as it was in Z212 because of the splice. Z213 is too blurred to determine anything. Personally I believe I see a good amount of flesh tone on Rosemary's hood in Z213.

Why don't you just admit that as the blur resolves, Rosemary's head is already turned towards the car?

I am not the only one who sees Rosemary turning her head from z214-217.  Roberdeau makes special mention of the turn:

[Jerry Organ]

I simply can't believe you two are still going on about Rosemary Willis.
It is genuinely unbelievable.

I let a lot of Mason's posts go by. Mason and you engage much more than I do.

Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said that when she turned towards the book depository she could see Oswald "as clear as day".
Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said she saw a gunman firing from the sewer!
Let's not forget this is the same Rosemary Willis who saw gun smoke coming from the grassy knoll.

The father also went CT-Simple. He originally thought all three shots came from the Depository. Years of cajoling from Loons would make anyone doubt what they saw. Doctors at Parkland recall Lifton trying to get them to confirm something they never saw.

I watched a few interviews with Linda Willis and she's totally into conspiracy and shots from the front. She said her father in 1964 noticed a train was removed from the No.5 photo. I doubt if that allegation came out earlier than the 1990s. But Linda has evolved what-to-her is an authentic memory of that. Not unusual as the human mind is not a digital camera.

I thought the Willis's were a nice common-sense Texan family. But hasn't the whole state gotten more CT-simple over the decades?

Whose first mention of stopping because she heard a shot was in 1979 - 16 years after the event.
Whose count of the the number of shots went from 3 to 4 to 6.

Did anybody interview her before 1979? Probably her first interviews were not influenced by CTs.

In any event, too bad for Mason and you that Rosemary slows down and looks to her right seconds before your theories would like.

And let's not forget, the little girl who heard the first shot while she was running along, slowed down and turned to where she heard the shot coming from [the TSBD building], all of which is shown in the Z-film. While, but a few feet away, a carload of Secret Service agents show no sign of reacting to the same shot, also shown in the Z-film.
Hmmmm.... taxi for Common Sense!
 

Adults--even SS agents--would be more inclined to dismiss the first shot as a backfire or firecracker. Rosemary was very young and the loud report would have been more novel to her.

[John Iacoletti]

Any witness statement that Jerry doesn't like must be due to "cajoling" from conspiracy theorists.

[Jerry Organ]

Any witness statement that Jerry doesn't like must be due to "cajoling" from conspiracy theorists.

When they go from three shots from the Depository to four-or-five shots with the head shot coming from the knoll, how else to explain it?

[Andrew Mason]

When they go from three shots from the Depository to four-or-five shots with the head shot coming from the knoll, how else to explain it?

You are referring to an interview given nearly 40 years after the events.  This is after she has read and, apparently, been persuaded by all sorts of conspiracy kooks and even acted a part in Stone's movie JFK. Besides, we are not using her evidence for the direction or number of shots.