The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

Harold Norman
"He stated that about the time the car in which the president was riding turned on to Elm Street, he heard a shot. He said he thought the shot had been fired from the floor directly above him. He further stated at that time he stuck his head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above him. He stated two additional shots were fired after he had pulled his head back in from the window.”………..
“Just after the President passed by I heard a shot and several seconds later, I heard two more shots.  I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle………..
………..“About the time that he got past the window where I was, well, it seems as though he was, I mean you know, brushing his hair. Maybe he was looking at the public…I can’t remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard a shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something, and then another shot and I believe Jarman or someone told me, he said “I believe someone is shooting at the President,” and I think I made a statement “it is someone shooting at the President, and I believe it came from up above us. Well, I couldn’t see at all during the time but I know I heard a third shot fired, and I could also hear something sounded like the shell hulls hitting the floor and the ejecting of the rifle.” ……..
And I said “I know I’m right” because I could hear something sound as though the shells were hitting the floor and I could hear the ejection of the rifle, clicks like that, you know.”………
…..(Later in the same broadcast) “Well, I was looking out the window and the first shot was fired. Well, y'know, I didn't think much of it, because it, shook the building a little bit. Really, it was just that powerful. Then after the second shot was fired, well, I saw the people. They were all falling on the ground. And I told one of the fellows. I say, “That shot came from this building.” And then by that time I heard the third shot. And one of the guys told me, he said, “I believe you’re right.” And I say “I know it did." And then I could, you know, also hear the hulls, empty hulls, the cartridges, hitting the floor, and I could hear the ejection of the rifle, whatever it was……..
………….."When the President came around, he was waving, seemed to be happy. About that time I heard a shot, and one of the guys said "Somebody's shooting at the President." ……
…………..And I could even now hear the empty cartridge hit the floor I mean after the shots had been fired. …..
…………(When asked how many shots he heard) “Three. I’d say just about like this BOOM…click click…BOOM…click clickBOOM. Something similar to that.”
…………..(On the shooting) "just as the motorcade came around...3 shots was fired...Boom, clack-clack, boom, clack-clack, boom. One at a time……….
………..(When asked if heard any cartridges fall) "I heard three." …….
…………."Well, I heard a shot when the motorcade came by. The first shot, it made the President slump. Then I heard two more shots." (When asked if he heard a total of three shots) "Yes, sir." (When asked how he could tell the shots came from above) "Yes, sir...Because I could hear the empty hulls--that's what I call them--hit the floor and I could hear the bolt action of the rifle being pushed back and forward." (When asked how many hulls he heard hit the floor) "Three." (When asked by the defense to describe the rhythm of the sounds) "As I recall, the rhythm of the sounds of the shots was Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click."
(1-19-92 interview with Gerald Posner, reported in Case Closed, 1993) "When the first shot came, I heard boom, then click-click, boom, click-click, boom. I could hear the sound of the click. I could hear the sound of the shells hitting the floor. I could hear everything. Three shots. No doubt in my mind."
………..The shots came from above and there was a gun and the shots were sounding, "Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click." So there was three shots fired right up over us when we were sitting on the fifth floor.”……….
………..  And all of a sudden, we hear something. 'Boom, ack, ack, boom, ack, ack, boom.' …………
……….And that was three of the shells I heard on the floor. And when the police officer asked about it, we told them about it and they went up there and that is what they found up there on the sixth floor. Three empty cartridge shells up there."
………..He laughed and walked away.' A few minutes later, Norman said, he heard three shots fired from the sixth floor window directly above the one he was using to view the parade."
Edited April 14, 2012 by Pat Speer.
Norman in places supports an early shot.
Brennan's statements support that Oswald stood up & back from the window  before the headshot.

Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion.
A Tinfoil nutjob will look for the tiniest bit of evidence that might support their bonkers theory.
I'll use the testimony Marjan has posted to demonstrate what I mean.

In every example Norman gives of the shots he heard from above his position, he describes three "Booms", that is to say three shots coming from above him. Nowhere does he describe two shots coming from above him and one shot from elsewhere. It must also be noted that Norman, like every other single witness watching the the motorcade in Dealey Plaza, fails to spot Hickey's fatal headshot. Not a single witness spots this. Isn't that incredible?
Marjan would have us believe the first shot occurred before Zapruder started filming JFK's limo in the motorcade (z133). He places it at an imaginary z113. As the headshot occurred at z313 this would leave an 11 second gap between these two shots. Now imagine Norman's description of the shots - Boom, click, click, Boom, click, click, Boom, click, click. Just run it through your mind and see if you can get it to last 11 seconds.

Here are few of Norman's statements Marjan posted, which he has failed to take into account-

“About the time that he got past the window where I was, well, it seems as though he was, I mean you know, brushing his hair. Maybe he was looking at the public…I can’t remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard a shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something, and then another shot and I believe Jarman or someone told me, he said “I believe someone is shooting at the President,” and I think I made a statement “it is someone shooting at the President, and I believe it came from up above us. Well, I couldn’t see at all during the time but I know I heard a third shot fired, and I could also hear something sounded like the shell hulls hitting the floor and the ejecting of the rifle.” …

After the first shot the President slumped. Does this support a shot at z113?

“Just after the President passed by I heard a shot..."

Norman heard the shot after the President had passed his position. This also rules out a shot at z113.

"When the President came around, he was waving, seemed to be happy. About that time I heard a shot...

Mary Woodward and Victoria Adams also agree the first shot took place just after JFK had been waving - long after z113.

"Well, I heard a shot when the motorcade came by. The first shot, it made the President slump. Then I heard two more shots."

The first shot made the President slump? Again, this completely refutes a shot at z113.

Harold Norman's testimony does not support a shot as early as z113. A genuine researcher would see that immediately.

"Brennan's statements support that Oswald stood up & back from the window  before the headshot."

Really?
Where can I find this testimony?

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion.
A Tinfoil nutjob will look for the tiniest bit of evidence that might support their bonkers theory.
I'll use the testimony Marjan has posted to demonstrate what I mean.

In every example Norman gives of the shots he heard from above his position, he describes three "Booms", that is to say three shots coming from above him. Nowhere does he describe two shots coming from above him and one shot from elsewhere. It must also be noted that Norman, like every other single witness watching the the motorcade in Dealey Plaza, fails to spot Hickey's fatal headshot. Not a single witness spots this. Isn't that incredible?
Marjan would have us believe the first shot occurred before Zapruder started filming JFK's limo in the motorcade (z133). He places it at an imaginary z113. As the headshot occurred at z313 this would leave an 11 second gap between these two shots. Now imagine Norman's description of the shots - Boom, click, click, Boom, click, click, Boom, click, click. Just run it through your mind and see if you can get it to last 11 seconds.

Here are few of Norman's statements Marjan posted, which he has failed to take into account-

“About the time that he got past the window where I was, well, it seems as though he was, I mean you know, brushing his hair. Maybe he was looking at the public…I can’t remember what the exact time was but I know I heard a shot, and then after I heard a shot, well, it seems as though the President, you know, slumped or something, and then another shot and I believe Jarman or someone told me, he said “I believe someone is shooting at the President,” and I think I made a statement “it is someone shooting at the President, and I believe it came from up above us. Well, I couldn’t see at all during the time but I know I heard a third shot fired, and I could also hear something sounded like the shell hulls hitting the floor and the ejecting of the rifle.” …

After the first shot the President slumped. Does this support a shot at z113?

“Just after the President passed by I heard a shot..."

Norman heard the shot after the President had passed his position. This also rules out a shot at z113.

"When the President came around, he was waving, seemed to be happy. About that time I heard a shot...

Mary Woodward and Victoria Adams also agree the first shot took place just after JFK had been waving - long after z113.

"Well, I heard a shot when the motorcade came by. The first shot, it made the President slump. Then I heard two more shots."

The first shot made the President slump? Again, this completely refutes a shot at z113.

Harold Norman's testimony does not support a shot as early as z113. A genuine researcher would see that immediately.

"Brennan's statements support that Oswald stood up & back from the window  before the headshot."

Really?
Where can I find this testimony?

There are 7 windows across the TSBD. Oswald was in 7th window 6th floor.  Norman was i think in 6th window 5th floor.
JFK was just west of the overhead signals at Z113, ie opposite/below say the 4th windows (the middle windows).
Hence JFK was 2 windows west of (ie past) Norman. Norman heard the first shot just after the President passed.
U say that this completely refutes a shot at Z113. Nope.

U  say that ….. Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion. Yes -- I did so.

U say that Norman says that 3 shots were from above him. Norman based this partly on the bolt & shell clicks & clacks.  But, Speer says that at various dates Norman gave the following 6 descriptions of the clicks & clacks. As u can see 4 of the 6 ended with Boom. Hence in 4 of the 6 Norman heard only 2 sets of clicks & clacks. Hence in 4 of the 6 the last Boom was Hickey's auto burst. We can assume this koz if the last Boom was a shot-3 from Oswald then we would expect to find a spent shell in the Carcano – but it had a full bullet not a spent shell.
1. BOOM…click click…BOOM…click clickBOOM.
2. Boom, clack-clack, boom, clack-clack, boom.
3. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click."
4. boom, then click-click, boom, click-click, boom
5. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click.
6. 'Boom, ack, ack, boom, ack, ack, boom.

[Dan O'meara]

There are 7 windows across the TSBD. Oswald was in 7th window 6th floor.  Norman was i think in 6th window 5th floor.
JFK was just west of the overhead signals at Z113, ie opposite/below say the 4th windows (the middle windows).
Hence JFK was 2 windows west of (ie past) Norman. Norman heard the first shot just after the President passed.
U say that this completely refutes a shot at Z113. Nope.

U  say that ….. Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion. Yes -- I did so.

U say that Norman says that 3 shots were from above him. Norman based this partly on the bolt & shell clicks & clacks.  But, Speer says that at various dates Norman gave the following 6 descriptions of the clicks & clacks. As u can see 4 of the 6 ended with Boom. Hence in 4 of the 6 Norman heard only 2 sets of clicks & clacks. Hence in 4 of the 6 the last Boom was Hickey's auto burst. We can assume this koz if the last Boom was a shot-3 from Oswald then we would expect to find a spent shell in the Carcano – but it had a full bullet not a spent shell.
1. BOOM…click click…BOOM…click clickBOOM.
2. Boom, clack-clack, boom, clack-clack, boom.
3. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click."
4. boom, then click-click, boom, click-click, boom
5. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click. Boom! Click, click.
6. 'Boom, ack, ack, boom, ack, ack, boom.

There are 7 windows across the TSBD. Oswald was in 7th window 6th floor.  Norman was i think in 6th window 5th floor.

This shows exactly how little you know about this subject.
Norman's position, directly under the assassin's position, is a basic piece of knowledge. Any genuine researcher would know this.
You are clearly unfamiliar with the basics of this case.
I imagine this is because, all you're interested in is trumpeting your Tinfoil  theory, and any facts, no matter how basic, that are not directly related to the nonsense you spout, are of no interest to you.
Do some research for a change and Google "Tom Dilliard photo".

U  say that ….. Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion. Yes -- I did so.

What a joke.

[John Iacoletti]

*Dillard

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

There are 7 windows across the TSBD. Oswald was in 7th window 6th floor.  Norman was i think in 6th window 5th floor.

This shows exactly how little you know about this subject.
Norman's position, directly under the assassin's position, is a basic piece of knowledge. Any genuine researcher would know this.
You are clearly unfamiliar with the basics of this case.
I imagine this is because, all you're interested in is trumpeting your Tinfoil  theory, and any facts, no matter how basic, that are not directly related to the nonsense you spout, are of no interest to you.
Do some research for a change and Google "Tom Dilliard photo".

U  say that ….. Any genuine researcher will look at the totality of evidence and let that form their opinion. Yes -- I did so.

What a joke.

So -- Norman was in the 7th window on 5th floor.
U are the joke -- koz placing Norman at the 7th window instead of the 6th window enhances even moreso my argument that shot-1 was at the signals.

[Dan O'meara]

Getting back to Fischer's observation of the assassin in the moments before the assassination:

"The man held my attention for 10 or 15 seconds, because he appeared uncomfortable for one, and, secondly, he wasn't watching-uh---he didn't look like he was watching for the parade. He looked like he was looking down toward the Trinity River and the triple underpass down at the end-toward the end of Ell Street. And--uh--all the time I watched him, he never moved his head, he never-he never moved anything. Just was there transfixed."


The assassin is surveying the scene below from the SN window.
When does he takes his shot?
There is a specific window of opportunity in which to make a choice - from the moment the limo first comes into view turning right onto Houston from Main until the limo passes under the triple underpass - it is within the section of the motorcade route the shot must be made, but where exactly? What is the assassin taking into account when deciding where to take the first shot?
Not being a trained assassin or expert marksman (I've never even held a rifle) I can only make a layman's guess at what the most important factor would be when deciding when to take a shot.
I'm guessing the best time would be when there is the least lateral (left to right) movement of the target.



From the point of view of the SN window, at what point is the target moving with the least lateral movement?

[Zeon Mason]

It certainly does appear that the 1st loud noise that is in fact a rifle shot , happened  at Z223 approx.

However there does seem to be the quick turn of Jackie’s head at Z170 approx and so what might be the cause of such quick motion?

My theory is that this Z160-170 motion of Jackie’s head turning and JFKs head seems to turn also as his hand is waving, is possibly a suppressed shot from Daltex bldg.

There was on a time passed by, many years ago a rather involved discussion about a Daltex shot and there was some speculative examination of photos and a window on the 3rd floor which seemed to have a small hole as though might be from breaking the glass .

However it was never quite proved beyond reasonable doubt such hole really existed , and Mr. Myttons analysis  was a leading cause of that doubt.

What is very coincidental is that the 3rd floor window of Daltex bldg, with the “anomaly” (hole) is perfectly the right height and angle for a shooter to get a straight down elm st shot that can clear the windshield of the  SS agent follow car just behind JFK limo.

There is also the coincidence of a known mob guy who was allegedly seen on the 3rd floor of Daltex carrying a brief case,  just minutes before the JFK limo arrived to Houston st, and this man had no alibi for his whereabouts .
 

[Dan O'meara]

It certainly does appear that the 1st loud noise that is in fact a rifle shot , happened  at Z223 approx.

However there does seem to be the quick turn of Jackie’s head at Z170 approx and so what might be the cause of such quick motion?

My theory is that this Z160-170 motion of Jackie’s head turning and JFKs head seems to turn also as his hand is waving, is possibly a suppressed shot from Daltex bldg.

There was on a time passed by, many years ago a rather involved discussion about a Daltex shot and there was some speculative examination of photos and a window on the 3rd floor which seemed to have a small hole as though might be from breaking the glass .

However it was never quite proved beyond reasonable doubt such hole really existed , and Mr. Myttons analysis  was a leading cause of that doubt.

What is very coincidental is that the 3rd floor window of Daltex bldg, with the “anomaly” (hole) is perfectly the right height and angle for a shooter to get a straight down elm st shot that can clear the windshield of the  SS agent follow car just behind JFK limo.

There is also the coincidence of a known mob guy who was allegedly seen on the 3rd floor of Daltex carrying a brief case,  just minutes before the JFK limo arrived to Houston st, and this man had no alibi for his whereabouts .

It certainly does appear that the 1st loud noise that is in fact a rifle shot , happened  at Z223 approx.

Over three quarters (160+) of the witness questioned about how many shots they heard, stated they heard three clearly audible shots.
Of course this still leaves 40+ witnesses who heard a different number of shots, but the weight of the overwhelming majority of witness statements is compelling evidence that there were three clearly audible shots in Dealey Plaza that day.
In this thread there is a mountain of evidence supporting the conclusion that the first of these three clearly audible shots was at z222/z223.

However there does seem to be the quick turn of Jackie’s head at Z170 approx and so what might be the cause of such quick motion?

My theory is that this Z160-170 motion of Jackie’s head turning and JFKs head seems to turn also as his hand is waving, is possibly a suppressed shot from Daltex bldg.

It is indeed the case that at around z170 both JFK and Jackie begin to turn their heads to their right. In about the space of one second both of them turn their heads directly to their right and JFK begins waving and smiling. This action is so quick and coordinated that it seems very likely both of them are reacting to the same "stimulus".
Your theory is that this "stimulus" that causes them to react, is a suppressed shot from the Daltex building.
There are a few problems with this theory:
1) If JFK and Jackie are responding to a shot from the Daltex, which is almost directly behind them, why do they both look directly to their right at the people lining Elm Street?
2) Isn't it unusual that JFK's reaction to this suppressed shot is to start waving and smiling at the crowds lining Elm Street?
3) If the shot is "suppressed", that is, the shot is more or less silent, how can Jackie or JFK hear it in order to react to it?
Even if they are turning because they heard a suppressed shot, why does this mean it came from the Daltex?

If we look at Jackie's WC testimony we don't find anything that even hints she might have reacted to a suppressed shot:

"You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no."

Jackie is completely unaware there is anything wrong until she hears Connally yelling out, which is surely a reaction to him being shot. If we look at Zapruder this cannot happen until after the limo has passed from behind the Stemmons sign, long after z170.
There is absolutely nothing to support the notion that either Jackie or JFK are reacting to a suppressed shot but, as I say, they do both appear to be reacting to something starting at z170.
If they are not reacting to a suppressed shot, then what are they reacting to?
The answer to this has already been well covered in this thread but I will repeat it here.
When JFK and Jackie look directly to their right, beginning at z170, they are looking towards a line of people on Elm Street that includes Mary Woodward and her work colleagues. Woodward is one of the first eyewitnesses to report on the shooting:

This is from an article in the Dallas Morning News entitled, "Witness From the News Describes Assassination", written by Woodward the day after the assassination [lifted from Pat Speer's website]:

"Four of us from Women’s News, Maggie Brown, Aurelia Alonzo, my roommate Ann Donaldson, and myself had decided to spend our lunch hour by going to see the President. We took our lunch along – some crackers and apples – and started walking down Houston Street. We decided to cross Elm and wait there on the grassy slope just east of the Triple Underpass, since there weren’t very many people there and we could get a better view. We had been waiting about half an hour when the first motorcycle escorts came by, followed shortly by the President’s car. The President was looking straight ahead and we were afraid we would not get to see his face. But we started clapping and cheering and both he and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us, it seemed. Jackie was wearing a beautiful pink suit with beret to match. Two of us, who had seen the President last during the final weeks of the 1960 campaign, remarked almost simultaneously how relaxed and robust he looked. As it turned out, we were almost certainly the last faces he noticed in the crowd. After acknowledging our cheers, he faced forward again and suddenly there was a horrible, ear-shattering noise coming from behind us and a little to the right.

When we examine the Zapruder film there is only one moment when both JFK and Jackie are looking toward the crowds lining Elm Street to their right and it is when they both begin to turn around z170. This must surely be the moment Woodward is describing when she states "both he [JFK] and Mrs. Kennedy turned, and smiled and waved, directly at us..."
Woodward's position on Elm Street is out of shot by z170 so I have cobbled together a couple of Z-frames to illustrate it. I've used z152, which shows Woodward's position and overlaid z170, the moment when Jackie and JFK begin to turn to their right:

upload a pic

The moment when Woodward and friends call out making Jackie and JFK turn to their right, is recalled by Vickie Adams in her WC testimony. Adams is watching the motorcade from the fourth floor and states:

"I watched the motorcade come down Main, as it turned from Main onto Houston, and watched it proceed around the corner on Elm, and apparently somebody in the crowd called to the late President, because he and his wife both turned abruptly and faced the building, so we had a very good view of both of them."

Both Adams and Woodward insist the first shot occurred shortly after this moment, ruling out an earlier shot.

There was on a time passed by, many years ago a rather involved discussion about a Daltex shot and there was some speculative examination of photos and a window on the 3rd floor which seemed to have a small hole as though might be from breaking the glass .

However it was never quite proved beyond reasonable doubt such hole really existed , and Mr. Myttons analysis  was a leading cause of that doubt.

What is very coincidental is that the 3rd floor window of Daltex bldg, with the “anomaly” (hole) is perfectly the right height and angle for a shooter to get a straight down elm st shot that can clear the windshield of the  SS agent follow car just behind JFK limo.

I am unaware of this anomaly regarding the 3rd floor window of the Daltex, but it seems like a product of "reverse thinking" that so often happens when someone is trying to support a theory. You say it's coincidental this anomaly is on the 3rd floor but that may not be the case. If you already have reached the conclusion there was a shot from the Daltex you will look for any tiny thing that might support this notion. So some kind of blurry anomaly is spotted at the 3rd floor window and this is used to support the theory. It's not coincidental the anomaly is in that position - it's being used because it is in that position! It's not coincidental at all.

There is also the coincidence of a known mob guy who was allegedly seen on the 3rd floor of Daltex carrying a brief case,  just minutes before the JFK limo arrived to Houston st, and this man had no alibi for his whereabouts .

Again, this is not a coincidence. I imagine the shot from the Daltex theory originates because this dodgy guy, Jim Braden, is known to have been in the Daltex. The theory of the Daltex shot probably exists because of this single fact. It is then a search for any tiny detail that might support this conclusion and,as we've seen, the support for this theory is pretty weak sauce.
When we ask - Did Jackie and JFK turn because - a) they heard a suppressed from the Daltex building, for which there is zero evidence, or, b) people calling from the crowd to their right caused them to turn and look, for which there is ample testimonial evidence - the answer seems obvious. It does to me, anyway.