Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 9439 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2020, 11:47:11 AM »
I'm assuming you're talking about the moment JFK is shot for the first time causing his fists to go up to his throat. The question is, if we assume there are three shots from the TSBD, which shot is this - first, second or third?
IMO the shot that caused JFK to raise his fists to his throat occurred at z223. The opening post of this thread is an assertion that no shot took place before z207. Less than one second after this (z223) Kennedy is hit. This leads me to conclude the first shot fired from the TSBD is the one that hits Kennedy in the throat. Quite a number of "ear-witnesses" describe a pattern to the shots - shot, pause, two shots closer together. If this is the case the second shot must be the head-shot with the third shot coming shortly after that.

Connally claimed he heard the first and third shot
The second shot he only felt

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2020, 12:00:21 PM »
Connally claimed he heard the first and third shot
The second shot he only felt
To be honest Bill, when I look at Zapruder it's as clear as day (to me, at least) that JFK and Connally are shot through at the same time, presumably by the same bullet (not CE399), and this is the first of the three shots I assume are coming from the TSBD.

Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2020, 01:05:15 PM »
The shot at Z-207 could not have been fired from the sniper's nest, as the view from there was blocked by the oak tree. Frame Z-210 is I believe the moment the limousine comes back into view of the assassin on the 6th floor.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2020, 04:30:38 PM »
Hi Jerry,

was hoping to get a discussion going on when the first shot occurred. What's your thoughts on that?
I know some researchers favour a shot very early on in Zapruder, even pre-z133, but I'm finding evidence to support a later first shot.
My thoughts lie in the realm that a single gunman theory falls flat in view of all the wounds that the victims received. Remember that James Tague was struck by debris from a separate shot.
Quickly...  http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/zapruder.html

Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2020, 04:41:27 PM »
My thoughts lie in the realm that a single gunman theory falls flat in view of all the wounds that the victims received. Remember that James Tague was struck by debris from a separate shot.
Quickly...  http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/zapruder.html

The missed shot that hit Tague is the reason the single bullet theory came into being. Otherwise one could argue that the first shot hit the President, the second the Governor and the third is the headshot. Three shots, three bullets, three hits. Deduct one bullet for the Tague hit and the Commission found itself up shit creek without a paddle. So it needed the single bullet theory to support its single assassin conclusion, despite the misgivings and objections of some Commission members, and the contradictory evidence provided by Governor Connally.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2020, 04:52:42 PM »
My thoughts lie in the realm that a single gunman theory falls flat in view of all the wounds that the victims received. Remember that James Tague was struck by debris from a separate shot.
Quickly...  http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/history/zapruder.html
In the link you provide Tague is hit well before z207. Zapruder shows no meaningful reaction from agents Hickey, Landis or Ready up to that point, who all testify they reacted immediately to the first shot, turning to look "rear right". Zapruder refutes this model. The first shot must come after z207.

At the moment I have it something like this:

1st shot - z223 - passes through JFK and Connally
2nd shot - z313 - headshot
3rd shot - ? - hits piece of concrete south side of Elm, fragment goes on to hit Tague (maybe ?)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 01:44:30 AM by Dan O'meara »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2020, 05:35:39 PM »
The missed shot that hit Tague is the reason the single bullet theory came into being. Otherwise one could argue that the first shot hit the President, the second the Governor and the third is the headshot. Three shots, three bullets, three hits. Deduct one bullet for the Tague hit and the Commission found itself up shit creek without a paddle. So it needed the single bullet theory to support its single assassin conclusion, despite the misgivings and objections of some Commission members, and the contradictory evidence provided by Governor Connally.

The autopsy concluded there was a neck transit. Therefore, in theory, the bullet that emerged intact from the President's throat had to be accounted for. What was in the path of the bullet, in front of and slightly below the President? Connally.

Tague was not the defining issue with regard to the SBT. He could have been injured by a ricochet fragment on what some consider a missed first shot or a rogue metal fragment from the head shot.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2020, 05:53:59 PM »
The autopsy concluded there was a neck transit. Therefore, in theory, the bullet that emerged intact from the President's throat had to be accounted for. What was in the path of the bullet, in front of and slightly below the President? Connally.

Tague was not the defining issue with regard to the SBT. He could have been injured by a ricochet fragment on what some consider a missed first shot or a rogue metal fragment from the head shot.
What does this tell us about when the first shot occurred?
(assuming 3 shots from TSBD)

Online John Tonkovich

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2020, 07:42:33 PM »
In the link you provide Tague is hit well before z207. Zapruder shows no meaningful reaction from agents Hickey, Landis or Ready up to that point, who all testify they reacted immediately to the first shot, turning to look "rear right". Zapruder refutes this model. The first shot must come after z207.

At the moment I have it something like this:

1st shot - z223 - passes through JFK and Connally
2nd shot - z313 - headshot
3rd shot - ? - hits piece of concrete south side of Elm, fragment goes on to hit Tague
The West survey, as revealed by the late Tom Purvis, shows that SS, FBI etc. ..knew the location of hits.
Z207
Z312
Z350

Connally seems quite mobile at Z275, and upright. Not the actions of a man who had a massive back, chest wound.
Might want to consider the political future of a man who did nothing to protect JFK.
Also, his WC testimony ends with an apology of sorts. For not doing anything. Very telling.
Well worth reading.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2020, 01:00:11 AM »
The West survey, as revealed by the late Tom Purvis, shows that SS, FBI etc. ..knew the location of hits.
Z207
Z312
Z350

Connally seems quite mobile at Z275, and upright. Not the actions of a man who had a massive back, chest wound.
Might want to consider the political future of a man who did nothing to protect JFK.
Also, his WC testimony ends with an apology of sorts. For not doing anything. Very telling.
Well worth reading.

What z-frame corresponds to Connally being shot ?

 

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