A time to receive and give (CE399)

[Martin Weidmann]

More obsessive harking. You're becoming Arnold Rowland.

Remember, folks, the innocent question that provoked all this: "Did Tomlinson or Wright describe tissue and blood on the bullet they saw at Parkland?"

You mean the article's characterization of Odum's sharpness once after he's been cajoled by two Conspiracy Kooks. Why only one page of phone transcript? What actually went on with their treatment of Odum such that they had to go meet him in person? Imagine the Warren Commission taking testimony and publishing just the first page of each transcript.

You forget you were going on about it.

    "Let's forget the fact that, even though the bullet is supposed to
     have traveled through two men, smashing various bones on the
     way, by the time it reaches Frazier there is not a speck of human
     tissue or blood on the bullet. Maybe some nice agent
     decided Frazier would like a lovely, clean bullet to work with."

My, what drama and sarcasm.

So, you no longer think blood and tissue was picked up as the bullet "traveled through two men, smashing various bones on the way". OK.

You just mentioned "wipe". Blood might not have had time to dry in order to stick to the surface of the bullet. Presumably, during the ride to Parkland, the bullet was lodged in an area where there was little air. Connally's clothing was removed early-on. Could be a subject for experimentation, but you critics don't seem interested in that approach.

You're inventing silly roadblocks. Maybe the bullet didn't pass all the way through the trousers. Or the bullet hole in the clothing remained over the missile in-shoot for awhile. Have you seen the angle of knee bend required to sit in one of those jump-seats, that makes the upper part of the pants tight near the knees? And not much room to straighten the legs after he collapsed onto Nellie.



Here's a picture of Connally wearing dress pants. The right leg is down, showing the clothing was loose when upright. The left leg is partially up showing the clothing tight against the upper surface of the thigh near the knee. And the amount of leg bend in the car was much greater.

If not a bullet, what caused the injury to the thigh and left a small lead fragment behind?

Was Connally left unattended for a few minutes while a "conspirator" dug the bullet out of his thigh? Were the doctors and nurses who treated Connally in on the "conspiracy" when they took X-rays and said there was no bullet in his thigh?

You mean the article's characterization of Odum's sharpness once after he's been cajoled by two Conspiracy Kooks.

Where does it say that Odum was "cajoled" by anybody? Or did you just make that up out of thin air?

Rather than ignoring it, why don't you try to explain the absense of the FD 302's Odum said he would have produced (as was custom at the FBI) if he had spoken to Tomlinson and Wright?

And while you are at it, explain to us please why Tomlinson is on record, twice, saying that he was only shown a bullet once, about a week after the assassination, by SAC Shaklin at Parkland Hospital.
We know for certain this happened as it is also mentioned in a Secret Service report.

So, Tomlinson say only SAC Shanklin showed him a bullet, in december 1963, SA Odum denies he ever showed Tomlinson and Wright a bullet in june 1964 and there are no FD 302 reports that should have been on file if Odum had talked to both men.

[John Iacoletti]

You mean the article's characterization of Odum's sharpness once after he's been cajoled by two Conspiracy Kooks.

“Cajoled” LOL. This is another one for the Lame LN excuses file. And you prefer hearsay from an anonymously written “report”….why?

Because it’s what you want to hear.

Why only one page of phone transcript? What actually went on with their treatment of Odum such that they had to go meet him in person? Imagine the Warren Commission taking testimony and publishing just the first page of each transcript.

Imagine the Warren Commission “cajoling” witnesses with pre-interviews to see what they are going to say before taking their testimonies on the record.

If not a bullet, what caused the injury to the thigh and left a small lead fragment behind?

You’re missing the point. Just because a bullet did this doesn’t make CE399 that bullet.

[Jerry Organ]

You mean the article's characterization of Odum's sharpness once after he's been cajoled by two Conspiracy Kooks.

Where does it say that Odum was "cajoled" by anybody? Or did you just make that up out of thin air?

Well the authors aren't going to admit that's what happened. 

What's in the rest of the phone transcript of their call to Odum? Is there a transcript for their visit to Odum?

Rather than ignoring it, why don't you try to explain the absense of the FD 302's Odum said he would have produced (as was custom at the FBI) if he had spoken to Tomlinson and Wright?

Some requests from the Commission didn't warrant FD-302s. ( Link ) FD-302s are normally done for criminal cases that could lead to a trial; Odum probably had an active case load of such investigations. Which is why he later thought he would have prepared a 302 for the requests from the Commission, when he probably only relayed what he was told to the author of the AirTel.

And while you are at it, explain to us please why Tomlinson is on record, twice, saying that he was only shown a bullet once, about a week after the assassination, by SAC Shaklin at Parkland Hospital.
We know for certain this happened as it is also mentioned in a Secret Service report.

So, Tomlinson say only SAC Shanklin showed him a bullet, in december 1963,

Possible Tomlinson forgot about the July 1964 visit or thought the interviewer in 1966 wanted to know about the first time he was shown the bullet after the assassination.

   Marcus: Did anybody show you the bullet after the time you found
          it, and after the time you gave it to Mr. Wright?

   Tomlinson: I seen it one time after that. I believe Mr. Shanklin from
          the FBI had it out there at the hospital in personnel with
          Mr. Wright there when they called me in.

   Marcus: When Shanklin and Mr. Wright called you in at that time,
          did they show you the bullet?

   Tomlinson: Yes.

   Marcus: Did they ask you if it looked like the same one?

   Tomlinson: Yes, I believe they did.

   Marcus: And as far as you could tell--- of course, you weren't making
          a ballistics test of it--- but as far as you could tell, did it look like
          the same one to you?

   Tomlinson: Yes, it appeared to be the same one.

SA Odum denies he ever showed Tomlinson and Wright a bullet in june 1964

Odum said he couldn't remember.

One can gauge the primary motivation for Aguilar/Thompson's cajoling of Odum, with:

    "For not only was Odum’s name absent from the FBI’s once
     secret files, it was also it difficult to imagine a motive for
     him to besmirch the reputation of the agency he had
     worked for and admired."

The guy said he couldn't remember but that it might have happened. But the authors score it as a victory that "besmirches" the Bureau.

and there are no FD 302 reports that should have been on file if Odum had talked to both men.

The AirTel has all the information and is formatted the same same as a FC-302. Odum was 82 and trying to remember some insignificant request mission from four decades ago (the "Magic Bullet" acquired most of its notoriety later). Odum might have thought they were talking about him having the bullet in hand on the day of the assassination. We'll never know because the authors' phone and visit transcripts are sealed until 2072.

[Martin Weidmann]

Well the authors aren't going to admit that's what happened. 

What's in the rest of the phone transcript of their call to Odum? Is there a transcript for their visit to Odum?

That doesn't answer my question. You claimed Odum was "cajoled", so you need to be able to show where you obtained this information. If you can't, you shouldn't use such a word.

Some requests from the Commission didn't warrant FD-302s. ( Link ) FD-302s are normally done for criminal cases that could lead to a trial; Odum probably had an active case load of such investigations. Which is why he later thought he would have prepared a 302 for the requests from the Commission, when he probably only relayed what he was told to the author of the AirTel.

So, Odum talks to Tomlinson and Wright. Both men fail to identify the bullet shown to them. Odum files no FD 302 reports, although he normally always does. Then suddenly SAC Shanklin writes in his Airtel message that both men could not identify the bullet. How did Shanklin know, without any report from Odum? Do you really think Shanklin is going to communicate to his superiors what an agent told him?

And then some anonymous person at the FBI in Washington writes CE2011 in which it suddenly says that (I paraphrase) although Tomlinson and Wright could not identify the bullet they still thought it could be the same one. Now where did that last part come from? All the FBI in Washington had was Shanklin's Airtel and that doesn't say both men thought it could be the same one? Are we to believe that somehow Odum passed on information to Washington, without writing anything down and passing by his superior officer Shanklin?

The WC asked the FBI to authenticate pieces of evidence that could link their prime suspect to the crime and the FBI just does away with normal procedures and doesn't document anything correctly. Really?

And then there is this; if Odum received CE399 and later returned it, his name or initial should be recorded in the chain of custody! It isn't... Go figure

Possible Tomlinson forgot about the July 1964 visit or thought the interviewer in 1966 wanted to know about the first time he was shown the bullet after the assassination.

And possibly Tomlinson did not forget at all and knew exactly what he was saying.

He clearly states to Marcus that he has been shown a bullet once, by Shanklin from the FBI. This encounter took place about a week after the assassination and is documented in at least one Secret Service report.

Odum said he couldn't remember.

One can gauge the primary motivation for Aguilar/Thompson's cajoling of Odum, with:

    "For not only was Odum’s name absent from the FBI’s once
     secret files, it was also it difficult to imagine a motive for
     him to besmirch the reputation of the agency he had
     worked for and admired."

The guy said he couldn't remember but that it might have happened. But the authors score it as a victory that "besmirches" the Bureau.

The AirTel has all the information and is formatted the same same as a FC-302. Odum was 82 and trying to remember some insignificant request mission from four decades ago (the "Magic Bullet" acquired most of its notoriety later). Odum might have thought they were talking about him having the bullet in hand on the day of the assassination. We'll never know because the authors' phone and visit transcripts are sealed until 2072.

The AirTel has all the information and is formatted the same same as a FC-302.

If the Airtel has all the information and was used as a subtitute for a FD 302, then why not simply let Odum write his reports as per usual instead of SAC Shanklin writing it for him?

Odum was 82 and trying to remember some insignificant request mission from four decades ago

Being old doesn't automatically mean you don't remember something that's part of the biggest case of the decade, if not century.
When he died, my father was 90 and he could tell you about all sorts of things that happened when I was growing up.

Odum might have thought they were talking about him having the bullet in hand on the day of the assassination.

And he just might have remembered everything correctly.

You are twisting and turning in every direction to keep your favorite narrative alive. It isn't working!